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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre	Calibration</H1>
 Jean-Luc Ohl 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Liaison%20from%20SMPTE%20to%20AES%20re%20Modern%20Theatre%0A%09Calibration&In-Reply-To=%3C543AA2EC.3030601%40ohl.to%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre	Calibration">jl at ohl.to
 </A> 
 Sun Oct 12 09:49:00 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Hello Philip,

I din't know the term "Dolby Dance" ;-)

but I suppose it is an RTA averaging while moving the mic (what I've 
seen from Dolby guys is that they have a look on how the RTA changes 
when moving a bit the microphone, but never saw any technical note, it 
didn't seem very repeatable...)
It is not the same thing because I propose an average over a larger 
volume and analysis on the whole recorded scanning  (it has to be an 
equally weighted averaging and not a sliding or exponential weighting).

Regards
Jean-Luc

Le 12/10/2014 16:23, philip newell a écrit :
> Dear Jean-Luc,
>
> Are you referring to techniques similar to 'The
> Dolby Dance'?
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Philip
>
>
>
> On 12 October 2014 16:10, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:
>
>> Hello SC04-08,
>>
>> thanks for the very interesting SMPTE draft "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-
>> Modern-Calibration.docx"
>>
>> One measuring technique that was not tested with the various rooms and
>> systems, is spatial averaging with a moving mic.
>> This is a time-blind method but can be very quick and reliable to EQ and
>> as a control method. It is interesting to see that ISO is considering such
>> a manual scanning method for Field measurements of sound isolation, see
>> ISO/FDIS16283-1:2013 Acoustics.
>> I wrote a basic note about this MMM Moving Mic Measurement at
>> <A HREF="http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf">http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf</A> and used
>> this method is many screening/dubbing rooms, comparing it to other methods
>> such as "standard one position RTA" and spatial averaging of log sine
>> sweeps at multiple positions.
>> If somebody is interested in testing the method, I can provide a software
>> to ease measurements and reports.
>>
>> Regards
>> Jean-Luc
>>
>>
>> Le 03/10/2014 17:45, AES Standards a écrit :
>>
>>> Dear Alan,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this note and the accompanying draft . I should clearly
>>> have checked all your notes before responding to the first!
>>>
>>> Thank you for your note. I have posted it to the SC-04-08 working-group
>>> secure document site with the filename, "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-Modern-Calibration.docx".
>>> A direct login is available for SC-04-08 members at:
>>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A>
>>>
>>> As already mentioned, this SMPTE draft will be discussed under liaison
>>> project AES-X215 during the SC-04-08 meeting next Thursday.
>>>
>>> SC-04-08 members please note: this draft is provided confidentially under
>>> a liaison agreement between AES and SMPTE. You may not distribute it
>>> further.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Mark Yonge
>>> AES Standards Manager
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SC-04-08 mailing list
>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> SC-04-08 mailing list
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>

</PRE>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre Calibration</H1>
 Brian Long 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Liaison%20from%20SMPTE%20to%20AES%20re%20Modern%20Theatre%0A%20Calibration&In-Reply-To=%3CD05FF60A.15BA6%25blong%40skysound.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre Calibration">blong at skysound.com
 </A> 
 Sun Oct 12 10:25:30 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Hello SC-04-08,

Given the basic introduction to this document that occurred at the recent
meeting in AES I will prepare a more extensive introductory explanation
shortly.

Prior to the completion of that introductory explanation please find below
a small bit of additional background information that was not included in
the preface of the modern calibration document as posted to address the
comments on the proposal of additional methods for inclusion in the modern
calibration document:

Prior to the writing of the document SMPTE conducted a survey of theater
technicians.  The global response from technicians represented over 3000
screens.  The survey revealed types of devices and methods used in the
field along with the range of knowledge.

Based on the results of that survey and extensive discussions within the
committee it was decided to focus this document on FFT based transfer
function measurements.
SMPTE will not be including additional methods within this particular
document.

Regards,

Brian Long

On 10/12/14, 8:49 AM, "Jean-Luc Ohl" <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:

>Hello Philip,
>
>I din't know the term "Dolby Dance" ;-)
>
>but I suppose it is an RTA averaging while moving the mic (what I've
>seen from Dolby guys is that they have a look on how the RTA changes
>when moving a bit the microphone, but never saw any technical note, it
>didn't seem very repeatable...)
>It is not the same thing because I propose an average over a larger
>volume and analysis on the whole recorded scanning (it has to be an
>equally weighted averaging and not a sliding or exponential weighting).
>
>Regards
>Jean-Luc
>
>
>
>
>Le 12/10/2014 16:23, philip newell a écrit :
>> Dear Jean-Luc,
>>
>> Are you referring to techniques similar to 'The
>> Dolby Dance'?
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 October 2014 16:10, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello SC04-08,
>>>
>>> thanks for the very interesting SMPTE draft "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-
>>> Modern-Calibration.docx"
>>>
>>> One measuring technique that was not tested with the various rooms and
>>> systems, is spatial averaging with a moving mic.
>>> This is a time-blind method but can be very quick and reliable to EQ
>>>and
>>> as a control method. It is interesting to see that ISO is considering
>>>such
>>> a manual scanning method for Field measurements of sound isolation, see
>>> ISO/FDIS16283-1:2013 Acoustics.
>>> I wrote a basic note about this MMM Moving Mic Measurement at
>>> <A HREF="http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf">http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf</A> and
>>>used
>>> this method is many screening/dubbing rooms, comparing it to other
>>>methods
>>> such as "standard one position RTA" and spatial averaging of log sine
>>> sweeps at multiple positions.
>>> If somebody is interested in testing the method, I can provide a
>>>software
>>> to ease measurements and reports.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jean-Luc
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 03/10/2014 17:45, AES Standards a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for this note and the accompanying draft . I should clearly
>>>> have checked all your notes before responding to the first!
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your note. I have posted it to the SC-04-08
>>>>working-group
>>>> secure document site with the filename,
>>>>"x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-Modern-Calibration.docx".
>>>> A direct login is available for SC-04-08 members at:
>>>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A>
>>>>
>>>> As already mentioned, this SMPTE draft will be discussed under liaison
>>>> project AES-X215 during the SC-04-08 meeting next Thursday.
>>>>
>>>> SC-04-08 members please note: this draft is provided confidentially
>>>>under
>>>> a liaison agreement between AES and SMPTE. You may not distribute it
>>>> further.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mark Yonge
>>>> AES Standards Manager
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SC-04-08 mailing list
>>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
>>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SC-04-08 mailing list
>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>SC-04-08 mailing list
><A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
><<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>

</PRE>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre	Calibration</H1>
 philip newell 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Liaison%20from%20SMPTE%20to%20AES%20re%20Modern%20Theatre%0A%09Calibration&In-Reply-To=%3CCAEEhACk1xtAz1bvSmcrV0NoJYJxr_X2NxQtjcmBs%2BQxG%2Bk7Bhg%40mail.gmail.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre	Calibration">philiprnewell at gmail.com
 </A> 
 Sun Oct 12 11:03:18 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Dear Jean-Luc,

I think that what many (most?) of us are trying to
get away from is trying to guess what is coming out of the loudspeakers by
means of making measurements in the distant, far field. All that you can
measure from there is a combination of direct sound, reflected sound,
reverberant sound and resonant mode effects.

Basically, all of that, lumped together, is the wrong
thing to measure. In every different room the combination of those
components will be different, and so the proportion of direct sound, which
is what the ear compares all the other sounds to, will also be different.
In short, it is not a way to try to achieve better compatibility of the
sounds from room to room.

I believe that one of the main objectives of this
group will be to find ways of specifying and calibrating systems in a way
which *will* better relate to the perceived sound quality.

No matter how you average the sound in a theatre, you
will not get much closer to knowing the spectrum of the sound which is
actually leaving the loudspeaker (and screen, in the case of cinema) in its
given mounting conditions. I think that we need to move to better
specifying what is happening at the sources.

However, perhaps a step further than the Modern
Calibration document is currently dealing with. Nevertheless, even in this
document, the trend is for *less* equalisation of the minor variations in
the spectral response if they are only resulting for room effects. The
document is actually warning *against* trying to equalise to within 1 dB of
any target curve, precisely because it has been shown that the tighter the
listening area response is forced to conform with a target curve, the more
the source responses will likely be equalised *away* from it. That is to
say, the sources will tend to become more coloured as the response in the
room is forced by equalisation to meet the curve.

Note that in the document, it says in Section 18.5.1.1:
-

18.5.1.1      Start with the Center Screen-Channel.

If adjustments are to be made, *adjust the equalization of the center
screen-channel so that the electroacoustic response is within the
frequency-response amplitude-tolerance window as shown in the ST 202:2010
X-Curve graph.* Listen to the results as compared to “bypassed”. *Remember
that the objective is good sound reproduction, not whether the sound system
measures to perfectly match the central electroacoustic response line shown
in the ST 202:2010 X-Curve graph.* It is very possible for a final
frequency-response curve to vary from the X-Curve central line in a
specific way within the tolerance range and deliver accurate aurally
perceived sound.

In other words, allow the response in the distant
field to wander freely within the limits of the calibration specification
if it results in less deformation of the smoothness of the response of the
source. This is a significant departure from the traditional way in which
calibration has frequently been carried out over the last 40 years.

So; once again, the advice is not to risk damaging a
good response at the source by trying to make the response follow a tight
target curve in the far, distant field, no matter what microphone averaging
technique is used.

Best wishes,

Philip

On 12 October 2014 17:49, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:

> Hello Philip,
>
> I din't know the term "Dolby Dance" ;-)
>
> but I suppose it is an RTA averaging while moving the mic (what I've seen
> from Dolby guys is that they have a look on how the RTA changes when moving
> a bit the microphone, but never saw any technical note, it didn't seem very
> repeatable...)
> It is not the same thing because I propose an average over a larger volume
> and analysis on the whole recorded scanning (it has to be an equally
> weighted averaging and not a sliding or exponential weighting).
>
> Regards
> Jean-Luc
>
>
>
>
> Le 12/10/2014 16:23, philip newell a écrit :
>
> Dear Jean-Luc,
>>
>> Are you referring to techniques similar to 'The
>> Dolby Dance'?
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 October 2014 16:10, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello SC04-08,
>>>
>>> thanks for the very interesting SMPTE draft "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-
>>> Modern-Calibration.docx"
>>>
>>> One measuring technique that was not tested with the various rooms and
>>> systems, is spatial averaging with a moving mic.
>>> This is a time-blind method but can be very quick and reliable to EQ and
>>> as a control method. It is interesting to see that ISO is considering
>>> such
>>> a manual scanning method for Field measurements of sound isolation, see
>>> ISO/FDIS16283-1:2013 Acoustics.
>>> I wrote a basic note about this MMM Moving Mic Measurement at
>>> <A HREF="http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf">http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf</A> and
>>> used
>>> this method is many screening/dubbing rooms, comparing it to other
>>> methods
>>> such as "standard one position RTA" and spatial averaging of log sine
>>> sweeps at multiple positions.
>>> If somebody is interested in testing the method, I can provide a software
>>> to ease measurements and reports.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Jean-Luc
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 03/10/2014 17:45, AES Standards a écrit :
>>>
>>> Dear Alan,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for this note and the accompanying draft . I should clearly
>>>> have checked all your notes before responding to the first!
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your note. I have posted it to the SC-04-08 working-group
>>>> secure document site with the filename, "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-
>>>> Modern-Calibration.docx".
>>>> A direct login is available for SC-04-08 members at:
>>>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A>
>>>>
>>>> As already mentioned, this SMPTE draft will be discussed under liaison
>>>> project AES-X215 during the SC-04-08 meeting next Thursday.
>>>>
>>>> SC-04-08 members please note: this draft is provided confidentially
>>>> under
>>>> a liaison agreement between AES and SMPTE. You may not distribute it
>>>> further.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Mark Yonge
>>&g...

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre	Calibration</H1>
 Jean-Luc Ohl 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Liaison%20from%20SMPTE%20to%20AES%20re%20Modern%20Theatre%0A%09Calibration&In-Reply-To=%3C543AF6E9.4010908%40ohl.to%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern Theatre	Calibration">jl at ohl.to
 </A> 
 Sun Oct 12 15:47:21 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Dear Philip,

I 'm with you on the real need of getting a neutral and room-independant 
sound but I think that spatial averaging is a way to achieve this goal.
In the draft, the SMPTE group also shows averaged measurements.
With averaging on enough positions or with moving mic, you can get a 
very good picture of the direct sound at mid and high frequencies.
More precisely, you get something in beetween what Toole/Olive defined 
as LW listening window response and ER early reflections response.
Spatial averaging really lessens the room effects by keeping direct 
sound, very early reflections, nearby diffraction and screen (mostly the 
minimal phase part) and averaging out the later reflections and diffuse 
field (the excess phase part).
For example, here are two comparisons between anechoic measurements and 
same cinema speakers model measured (averaged) in rooms.
<A HREF="http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/21/77/49/design10.png">http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/21/77/49/design10.png</A>
<A HREF="http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/21/77/49/studio10.png">http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/21/77/49/studio10.png</A>
In both cases, responses show many similarities in mids and highs.
So I don't think averaging measures the wrong thing, it measures the 
same thing by a different way.

Basically, I think we mostly agree on the goal, let's find the method.

Cheers
Jean-Luc

Le 12/10/2014 19:03, philip newell a écrit :
> Dear Jean-Luc,
>
> I think that what many (most?) of us are trying to
> get away from is trying to guess what is coming out of the loudspeakers by
> means of making measurements in the distant, far field. All that you can
> measure from there is a combination of direct sound, reflected sound,
> reverberant sound and resonant mode effects.
>
> Basically, all of that, lumped together, is the wrong
> thing to measure. In every different room the combination of those
> components will be different, and so the proportion of direct sound, which
> is what the ear compares all the other sounds to, will also be different.
> In short, it is not a way to try to achieve better compatibility of the
> sounds from room to room.
>
> I believe that one of the main objectives of this
> group will be to find ways of specifying and calibrating systems in a way
> which *will* better relate to the perceived sound quality.
>
> No matter how you average the sound in a theatre, you
> will not get much closer to knowing the spectrum of the sound which is
> actually leaving the loudspeaker (and screen, in the case of cinema) in its
> given mounting conditions. I think that we need to move to better
> specifying what is happening at the sources.
>
> However, perhaps a step further than the Modern
> Calibration document is currently dealing with. Nevertheless, even in this
> document, the trend is for *less* equalisation of the minor variations in
> the spectral response if they are only resulting for room effects. The
> document is actually warning *against* trying to equalise to within 1 dB of
> any target curve, precisely because it has been shown that the tighter the
> listening area response is forced to conform with a target curve, the more
> the source responses will likely be equalised *away* from it. That is to
> say, the sources will tend to become more coloured as the response in the
> room is forced by equalisation to meet the curve.
>
> Note that in the document, it says in Section 18.5.1.1:
> -
>
> 18.5.1.1 Start with the Center Screen-Channel.
>
> If adjustments are to be made, *adjust the equalization of the center
> screen-channel so that the electroacoustic response is within the
> frequency-response amplitude-tolerance window as shown in the ST 202:2010
> X-Curve graph.* Listen to the results as compared to “bypassed”. *Remember
> that the objective is good sound reproduction, not whether the sound system
> measures to perfectly match the central electroacoustic response line shown
> in the ST 202:2010 X-Curve graph.* It is very possible for a final
> frequency-response curve to vary from the X-Curve central line in a
> specific way within the tolerance range and deliver accurate aurally
> perceived sound.
>
> In other words, allow the response in the distant
> field to wander freely within the limits of the calibration specification
> if it results in less deformation of the smoothness of the response of the
> source. This is a significant departure from the traditional way in which
> calibration has frequently been carried out over the last 40 years.
>
> So; once again, the advice is not to risk damaging a
> good response at the source by trying to make the response follow a tight
> target curve in the far, distant field, no matter what microphone averaging
> technique is used.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Philip
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12 October 2014 17:49, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Philip,
>>
>> I din't know the term "Dolby Dance" ;-)
>>
>> but I suppose it is an RTA averaging while moving the mic (what I've seen
>> from Dolby guys is that they have a look on how the RTA changes when moving
>> a bit the microphone, but never saw any technical note, it didn't seem very
>> repeatable...)
>> It is not the same thing because I propose an average over a larger volume
>> and analysis on the whole recorded scanning (it has to be an equally
>> weighted averaging and not a sliding or exponential weighting).
>>
>> Regards
>> Jean-Luc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 12/10/2014 16:23, philip newell a écrit :
>>
>> Dear Jean-Luc,
>>> Are you referring to techniques similar to 'The
>>> Dolby Dance'?
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>>
>>> Philip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12 October 2014 16:10, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello SC04-08,
>>>> thanks for the very interesting SMPTE draft "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-
>>>> Modern-Calibration.docx"
>>>>
>>>> One measuring technique that was not tested with the various rooms and
>>>> systems, is spatial averaging with a moving mic.
>>>> This is a time-blind method but can be very quick and reliable to EQ and
>>>> as a control method. It is interesting to see that ISO is considering
>>>...

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 draft document for comments/review</H1>
 Pete Soper 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20draft%20document%20for%20comments/review&In-Reply-To=%3C2BE563BCBE473946A8E72AE261D4F64BE7B9A8B9%40XCHG2.ms.msli.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 draft document for comments/review">psoper at meyersound.com
 </A> 
 Mon Oct 13 16:17:52 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Hello members of AES SC-04-08,

This is a friendly reminder that a couple of weeks ago now, SMPTE presented this group with a draft of their Pink Noise standard which they are requesting comments on.  Please comment to the SC-04-08 reflector by October 27 so the comments can be collated and given to SMPTE by the requested date of November 1.

I would like to encourage everyone in this group, please if you have a chance, take a few minutes to read through the document which was posted in our documents and downloads section at...

x216-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE_Pink_Noise_Standard.docx<<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91&file=%2Fx216%2D141002%2DDRAFT%2DSMPTE%5FPink%5FNoise%5FStandard%2Edocx&filesize=40866">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91&file=%2Fx216%2D141002%2DDRAFT%2DSMPTE%5FPink%5FNoise%5FStandard%2Edocx&filesize=40866</A>>

...and provide any feedback you might have regarding this document to the reflector.  In particular they are looking for thoughts with regard to section 5 (amplitude) regarding the proposed RMS level of -19dBFS (for "backwards compatibility") as opposed to -20dbFS (which has long been the traditionally stated level value.)  Note that the standard is specifying the RMS level of the digital pink noise signal itself as opposed to the traditional method of measuring wideband analog pink noise with an averaging meter.

They are also looking for feedback on section 6 (Spectral Content) and any other items which might draw your attention.

Please keep in mind that the scope of their assignment is to provide a standard for a single wideband reference calibration pink noise signal that is suitable for electroacoustic and sound pressure measurement.  While we all know that there are other signals which may be more appropriate for different types of measurement, those are outside of the scope of this project, so try to keep comments relevant to this one broad-band noise signal.

I will then gather the comments and prepare a response from this group to be sent back to SMPTE through the liaison channel.

Thank you!

-Pete Soper

NOTICE: This email may contain confidential information. Please see <A HREF="http://www.meyersound.com/confidential/">http://www.meyersound.com/confidential/</A> for our complete policy.
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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 draft document for comments/review</H1>
 John Woodgate 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20draft%20document%20for%20comments/review&In-Reply-To=%3Ciaypr4MI7GPUFwWk%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 draft document for comments/review">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk
 </A> 
 Mon Oct 13 18:31:04 MDT 2014
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<PRE>In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">2BE563BCBE473946A8E72AE261D4F64BE7B9A8B9 at XCHG2.ms.msli.com</A>>, 
dated Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Pete Soper <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">psoper at meyersound.com</A>> writes:

>This is a friendly reminder that a couple of weeks ago now, SMPTE 
>presented this group with a draft of their Pink Noise standard which 
>they are requesting comments on.

I'm sure I wrote some comments on the document when it first arrived, 
but my email records are a bit confused at present since I haven't 
integrated the LA messages into the main archives. Have you seen any 
comments from me? If not, please tell me and I'll do them again.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Quid faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 draft document for comments/review</H1>
 John Woodgate 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20draft%20document%20for%20comments/review&In-Reply-To=%3CbLk3P1NRRHPUFwAe%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 draft document for comments/review">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk
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 Mon Oct 13 18:54:41 MDT 2014
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<PRE>In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">2BE563BCBE473946A8E72AE261D4F64BE7B9A8B9 at XCHG2.ms.msli.com</A>>, 
dated Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Pete Soper <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">psoper at meyersound.com</A>> writes:

>Hello members of AES SC-04-08,
>
>This is a friendly reminder that a couple of weeks ago now, SMPTE 
>presented this group with a draft of their Pink Noise standard which 
>they are requesting comments on. Please comment to the SC-04-08 
>reflector by October 27 so the comments can be collated and given to 
>SMPTE by the requested date of November 1.

I have now found my comments on x-215 and x-216 and uploaded them to the 
SC-04-08 page.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Quid faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] X215 Introduction</H1>
 Brian Long 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20X215%20Introduction&In-Reply-To=%3C8DBDC6D514F3F44B99EA56F331381FE1C32D5FD5%40mailbox12.lucas.alllucas.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] X215 Introduction">blong at skysound.com
 </A> 
 Mon Oct 13 19:58:17 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Dear SC -04-08 Colleagues,

The Society of Motion Picture Engineers has delivered documents for review as part of the AES X215 project on the modern calibration of cinemas.
The development of these documents followed a detailed course starting with a  bench test comparison of equipment, through an industry survey, to document development.  Following is an overview of what was accomplished in each phase:

1. The bench testing group conducted an analysis of various commercially available RTA and transfer function analysis devices in a laboratory setting.  This analysis identified any differences in measurements between the types of devices in the electrical domain.  Information on various devices settings that could lead to differences in observed readings were noted.  Nuisance variables were explored and discussed including differences in microphones, pre amplifiers, and interpretation of device settings.

2.  An industry survey was conducted of technicians who had primary responsibilities of maintaining commercial exhibition spaces and/or content creation spaces (dubbing stages).  The survey revealed and documented the knowledge spread and a variety of methods used in the field to calibrate cinemas.

3.  A draft document was developed to provide guidance and a basis of information for the calibration process.  This document also includes recommendations for the use of transfer function devices.

This document is a stop gap measure.  It is designed to codify current practices and provide guidance to eliminate nuisance variables as found in the research work while maintaining a streamlined work flow.  This work is not proposing alteration of the target curve.  Planned future work will continue after this document is complete to evolve calibration methods.

The document is quite long.  It is not necessary to provide comments across the entire document if you do not wish to.

Of particular interest we would welcome comments on the sections regarding microphone placement and number of locations, and under the transfer function use procedures.

If additional clarifying background information is needed please send any questions my way.

I look forward to your comments by Nov. 1.  Please see the document for instructions on the preferred method for providing comments.

Direct download links:

Word:
<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91&file=%2Fx215%2D141002%2DDRAFT%2DSMPTE%2DModern%2DCalibration%2Edocx&filesize=1121542">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91&file=%2Fx215%2D141002%2DDRAFT%2DSMPTE%2DModern%2DCalibration%2Edocx&filesize=1121542</A>

PDF:
<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91&file=%2Fx215%2Dx216%2DSMPTE%2Dto%2DAES%2Dre%2DModern%2DCalibration%2Dand%2DPink%2DNoise%2D2014%2D09%2D24%2Dfinal%2Epdf&filesize=61177">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91&file=%2Fx215%2Dx216%2DSMPTE%2Dto%2DAES%2Dre%2DModern%2DCalibration%2Dand%2DPink%2DNoise%2D2014%2D09%2D24%2Dfinal%2Epdf&filesize=61177</A>

Regards,

Brian Long
</PRE>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] [Liaisons] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern	Theatre Calibration</H1>
 philip newell 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20%5BLiaisons%5D%20Liaison%20from%20SMPTE%20to%20AES%20re%20Modern%0A%09Theatre%20Calibration&In-Reply-To=%3CCAEEhACk10HKFGaj19MAy6iP6AAer%2B9UMKMoWSqYBGZJQCuNXfQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] [Liaisons] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re Modern	Theatre Calibration">philiprnewell at gmail.com
 </A> 
 Tue Oct 14 12:14:37 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Dear Alan,

Which working group; SMPTE or AES?

Best wishes,

Philip

On 14 October 2014 18:33, Alan Lambshead <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alan.lambshead at icloud.com</A>> wrote:

> Please remove this discussion from the SMPTE Liaisons reflector. Good
> discussion is better in your own working group
>
> Thanks
>
> Alan Lambshead
> SMPTE Standards Vice President
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alambshead at smpte.org</A>
> Phone:+1 (416) 848-3119
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:23 AM, philip newell <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">philiprnewell at gmail.com</A>>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Jean-Luc,
>
> Are you referring to techniques similar to 'The
> Dolby Dance'?
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Philip
>
>
>
> On 12 October 2014 16:10, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:
>
>> Hello SC04-08,
>>
>> thanks for the very interesting SMPTE draft "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-
>> Modern-Calibration.docx"
>>
>> One measuring technique that was not tested with the various rooms and
>> systems, is spatial averaging with a moving mic.
>> This is a time-blind method but can be very quick and reliable to EQ and
>> as a control method. It is interesting to see that ISO is considering such
>> a manual scanning method for Field measurements of sound isolation, see
>> ISO/FDIS16283-1:2013 Acoustics.
>> I wrote a basic note about this MMM Moving Mic Measurement at
>> <A HREF="http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf">http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf</A> and
>> used this method is many screening/dubbing rooms, comparing it to other
>> methods such as "standard one position RTA" and spatial averaging of log
>> sine sweeps at multiple positions.
>> If somebody is interested in testing the method, I can provide a software
>> to ease measurements and reports.
>>
>> Regards
>> Jean-Luc
>>
>>
>> Le 03/10/2014 17:45, AES Standards a écrit :
>>
>>> Dear Alan,
>>>
>>> Thank you for this note and the accompanying draft . I should clearly
>>> have checked all your notes before responding to the first!
>>>
>>> Thank you for your note. I have posted it to the SC-04-08 working-group
>>> secure document site with the filename, "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-Modern-Calibration.docx".
>>> A direct login is available for SC-04-08 members at:
>>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A>
>>>
>>> As already mentioned, this SMPTE draft will be discussed under liaison
>>> project AES-X215 during the SC-04-08 meeting next Thursday.
>>>
>>> SC-04-08 members please note: this draft is provided confidentially
>>> under a liaison agreement between AES and SMPTE. You may not distribute it
>>> further.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Mark Yonge
>>> AES Standards Manager
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SC-04-08 mailing list
>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>
>>
>
>
>
</PRE>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] [Liaisons] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re	Modern	Theatre Calibration</H1>
 Vessa, Brian 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20%5BLiaisons%5D%20Liaison%20from%20SMPTE%20to%20AES%20re%0A%09Modern%09Theatre%20Calibration&In-Reply-To=%3C3A69E74C-1B15-436D-9535-FB222BEF6CAB%40spe.sony.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] [Liaisons] Liaison from SMPTE to AES re	Modern	Theatre Calibration">Brian_Vessa at spe.sony.com
 </A> 
 Tue Oct 14 12:35:40 MDT 2014
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<PRE>Hi Alan-

Mark Yonge's original email reply to you had on copy the AES group and SMPTE Liaisons, and I think Jean Luc and Philip simply "replied all" to Mark's email.  Might have been better if Mark sent two emails.

In any case, the SMPTE Liaison email was removed fairly soon after the email on the 12th, so I think we're good.

Cheers,

Brian

Executive Director, Digital Audio Mastering
Sony Pictures Entertainment
310-244-3306 office
310-779-9938 cell

On Oct 14, 2014, at 11:14 AM, philip newell <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">philiprnewell at gmail.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">philiprnewell at gmail.com</A>>> wrote:

Dear Alan,

Which working group; SMPTE or AES?

Best wishes,

Philip

On 14 October 2014 18:33, Alan Lambshead <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alan.lambshead at icloud.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alan.lambshead at icloud.com</A>>> wrote:

Please remove this discussion from the SMPTE Liaisons reflector.  Good
discussion is better in your own working group

Thanks

Alan Lambshead
SMPTE Standards Vice President
<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alambshead at smpte.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alambshead at smpte.org</A>>
Phone:+1 (416) 848-3119

On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:23 AM, philip newell <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">philiprnewell at gmail.com</A>>
wrote:

Dear Jean-Luc,

Are you referring to techniques similar to 'The
Dolby Dance'?

Best wishes,

Philip

On 12 October 2014 16:10, Jean-Luc Ohl <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jl at ohl.to</A>> wrote:

Hello SC04-08,

thanks for the very interesting SMPTE draft "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-
Modern-Calibration.docx"

One measuring technique that was not tested with the various rooms and
systems, is spatial averaging with a moving mic.
This is a time-blind method but can be very quick and reliable to EQ and
as a control method. It is interesting to see that ISO is considering such
a manual scanning method for Field measurements of sound isolation, see
ISO/FDIS16283-1:2013 Acoustics.
I wrote a basic note about this MMM Moving Mic Measurement at
<A HREF="http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf">http://www.ohl.to/audio/downloads/MMM-moving-mic-measurement.pdf</A> and
used this method is many screening/dubbing rooms, comparing it to other
methods such as "standard one position RTA" and spatial averaging of log
sine sweeps at multiple positions.
If somebody is interested in testing the method, I can provide a software
to ease measurements and reports.

Regards
Jean-Luc

Le 03/10/2014 17:45, AES Standards a écrit :

Dear Alan,

Thank you for this note and the accompanying draft . I should clearly
have checked all your notes before responding to the first!

Thank you for your note. I have posted it to the SC-04-08 working-group
secure document site with the filename, "x215-141002-DRAFT-SMPTE-Modern-Calibration.docx".
A direct login is available for SC-04-08 members at:
<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A>

As already mentioned, this SMPTE draft will be discussed under liaison
project AES-X215 during the SC-04-08 meeting next Thursday.

SC-04-08 members please note: this draft is provided confidentially
under a liaison agreement between AES and SMPTE. You may not distribute it
further.

regards,

Mark Yonge
AES Standards Manager

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