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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality</H1>
 John Woodgate 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Workgroup%20confidentiality&In-Reply-To=%3C0ahQ8YAfWg7RFwg6%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk
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 Mon Jul 22 22:25:03 MDT 2013
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<PRE>In message 
<<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">CAEEhACnCh0rXXuE6GEG8RM7qDDCaPoL5c_k6pgc6AmmJpRnGfw at mail.gmail.com</A>>, 
dated Tue, 23 Jul 2013, philip newell <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">philiprnewell at gmail.com</A>> writes:

> I was mentioning in an e-mail to Brian Long, a few 
>hours ago, that it is getting very confusing for some of us who are in 
>both groups to remember who said what to *us*, and *to whom *we said 
>what.
>
> In fact, there is a considerable number of us who are 
>in both groups.

It is clear that this ruling will cause total confusion. Rules should be 
for guidance, not for slavish observance contrary to common sense.

I think that all email discussion connected with this liaison has to be 
**prohibited immediately**, and the liaison abandoned.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it?

John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality</H1>
 John Woodgate 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Workgroup%20confidentiality&In-Reply-To=%3CKlGvDJRA8r7RFwV8%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk
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 Tue Jul 23 11:36:00 MDT 2013
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<PRE>In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">DD031DF2-4554-4695-8560-19FCE9319259 at optimumss.com</A>>, dated 
Mon, 22 Jul 2013, John Murray <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">john at optimumss.com</A>> writes:

>Imagine how confused David Weinberg and I are since we are both in all 
>three EQ Standards committees: the AES, SMPTE & InfoComm.

AS a more positive proposal than in my previous post, I suggest the 
project leaders set up an independent, moderated, closed mailing list on 
Yahoo (or hooligan of your choice).

That way, the interested parties can exchange ideas and proposals 
without running foul of anyone's legal sensibilities. Agreed outcomes 
can then be transferred to the official groups under the utmost secrecy. 
(;-)
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it?

John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality</H1>
 Mark Yonge 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Workgroup%20confidentiality&In-Reply-To=%3C8115867A-765F-4D88-B698-8FA61643DF1B%40aes.org%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality">standards at aes.org
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 Wed Jul 24 09:27:16 MDT 2013
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<PRE>Hi John,

Sorry I wasn't able to reply earlier - I was wrestling with crocodiles!

I see two issues that need to be addressed:

The confidentiality issue is partly driven by us, but mainly by our liaison partners who want to protect their own procedures - the B-chain project is a SMPTE one; we have a liaison with it for information exchange which will take the form of updates passed between the groups, but its not essentially our project. Consequently, when dual posting to both reflectors gets contentious, it needs to stop. If the dual postings were benign and constructive, I doubt the current issue would ever arise.

In this case, the dual posting involved you when you sent a note to the reflector that included "<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">25css-calibration at lists.smpte.org</A>". Thank you very much for NOT posting to our reflector the content of the note that Brian McCarty sent you - the fact that he copied it to the SMPTE group was sufficient to do some damage, however, and I have since seen a copy.

The flaming issue is more fundamental, I think. We have seen careless use of language disrupt progress in other reflectors (thinking of SC-05-05 in its heyday), but the current example is hard to tolerate. It's not too far-fetched to say that this sort of abuse could easily stop the work of the AESSC in its tracks and prevent any further progress.

Speaking with others, I note that the Journal has specific advice to authors that, "Good taste is a necessity. No derogatory mention of other engineering work, engineers, or organizations shall be made. On the other hand, constructive technical criticism, which makes suggestions for improvements that would remove the objection, is not derogatory if the technical basis is well developed and accurate. The initiation of controversy should be minimized by a careful checking of the critical judgments. Controversy for its own sake should be discouraged."

<A HREF="http://www.aes.org/journal/authors/guidelines/">http://www.aes.org/journal/authors/guidelines/</A> scroll to the bottom of that page and look at General Requirements.

I am considering the adoption of similar wording for AESSC. In the not-too-distant past, this would have been unnecessary because all concerned would understand the need for mutual respect in print. We should probably recognise that writing styles in the age of text messaging and FaceBook have become less formal and less considered. We should provide guidance for group members, backed with sanctions for non-compliance.

I would very much welcome your thoughts.

Mark

On 2013-07-23, at 18:36, John Woodgate wrote:

> In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">DD031DF2-4554-4695-8560-19FCE9319259 at optimumss.com</A>>, dated Mon, 22 Jul 2013, John Murray <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">john at optimumss.com</A>> writes:
> 
>> Imagine how confused David Weinberg and I are since we are both in all three EQ Standards committees: the AES, SMPTE & InfoComm.
> 
> AS a more positive proposal than in my previous post, I suggest the project leaders set up an independent, moderated, closed mailing list on Yahoo (or hooligan of your choice).
> 
> That way, the interested parties can exchange ideas and proposals without running foul of anyone's legal sensibilities. Agreed outcomes can then be transferred to the official groups under the utmost secrecy. (;-)
> -- 
> OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
> Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it?
> 
> John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
> _______________________________________________
> SC-04-08 mailing list
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality</H1>
 John Woodgate 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Workgroup%20confidentiality&In-Reply-To=%3CTYa5MqKtdA8RFw9p%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk
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 Wed Jul 24 10:57:17 MDT 2013
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<PRE>In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">8115867A-765F-4D88-B698-8FA61643DF1B at aes.org</A>>, dated Wed, 24 
Jul 2013, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> writes:

>In this case, the dual posting involved you when you sent a note to the 
>reflector that included "<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">25css-calibration at lists.smpte.org</A>". Thank you 
>very much for NOT posting to our reflector the content of the note that 
>Brian McCarty sent you - the fact that he copied it to the SMPTE group 
>was sufficient to do some damage, however, and I have since seen a 
>copy.

It arrived as a private email and I treated it as such. Again, I didn't 
notice it also went to SMPTE, and even if I had, I wouldn't have seen 
that as harmful, just joshing. It is essential that the joshee sees the 
josh otherwise it's not only ineffective but becomes a 'behind the back' 
comment, which is much less acceptable.

It's awfully difficult to prevent errors where 'reply all' represents an 
'unsafe condition'. It's so easy to make a mistake that it has to be 
accepted in practice as 'something that happens'. It gets even worse 
when blind copies are involved; it's then impossible to be sure of not 
sending to the wrong places.
>
>The flaming issue is more fundamental, I think. We have seen careless 
>use of language disrupt progress in other reflectors (thinking of 
>SC-05-05 in its heyday), but the current example is hard to tolerate. 
>It's not too far-fetched to say that this sort of abuse could easily 
>stop the work of the AESSC in its tracks and prevent any further progress.

Now, I didn't see any flaming!! So unless the definition of 'flaming' is 
other than I think it is, I obviously missed out on some juicy 
invective.

With regard to informal writing styles, of course the social media have 
gone much too far, with totally thoughtless and damaging words being 
published. But equally, I've found that some people can take offence at 
the most innocent remarks, and when asked to say what was offensive they 
refuse to say. Peculiar psychology! Or perhaps they have trouble reading 
words like 'public' and 'therapist'!

Anyway, either my suggestion of an independent mailing list or David 
Josephson's suggestion of making everyone a member of -08 would work, if 
SMPTE will co-operate.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it?

John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
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 <H1>[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality</H1>
 Brian McCarty 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Workgroup%20confidentiality&In-Reply-To=%3C56F49CA3-B9CB-44B5-A350-31DFEEFEFDF6%40coralseastudios.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Workgroup confidentiality">bmccarty at coralseastudios.com
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 Wed Jul 24 13:53:27 MDT 2013
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<PRE>Mark,

It should be noted that the reply in question was sent accidentally to the SMPTE reflector.  I routinely have several email "responses" open on my computer at the same time.  Sorry for that.

Brian McCarty

On Jul 25, 2013, at 2:57 AM, John Woodgate <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk</A>> wrote:

> In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">8115867A-765F-4D88-B698-8FA61643DF1B at aes.org</A>>, dated Wed, 24 Jul 2013, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> writes:
> 
>> In this case, the dual posting involved you when you sent a note to the reflector that included "<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">25css-calibration at lists.smpte.org</A>". Thank you very much for NOT posting to our reflector the content of the note that Brian McCarty sent you - the fact that he copied it to the SMPTE group was sufficient to do some damage, however, and I have since seen a copy.
> 
> It arrived as a private email and I treated it as such. Again, I didn't notice it also went to SMPTE, and even if I had, I wouldn't have seen that as harmful, just joshing. It is essential that the joshee sees the josh otherwise it's not only ineffective but becomes a 'behind the back' comment, which is much less acceptable.
> 
> It's awfully difficult to prevent errors where 'reply all' represents an 'unsafe condition'. It's so easy to make a mistake that it has to be accepted in practice as 'something that happens'. It gets even worse when blind copies are involved; it's then impossible to be sure of not sending to the wrong places.
>> 
>> The flaming issue is more fundamental, I think. We have seen careless use of language disrupt progress in other reflectors (thinking of SC-05-05 in its heyday), but the current example is hard to tolerate. It's not too far-fetched to say that this sort of abuse could easily stop the work of the AESSC in its tracks and prevent any further progress.
> 
> Now, I didn't see any flaming!! So unless the definition of 'flaming' is other than I think it is, I obviously missed out on some juicy invective.
> 
> With regard to informal writing styles, of course the social media have gone much too far, with totally thoughtless and damaging words being published. But equally, I've found that some people can take offence at the most innocent remarks, and when asked to say what was offensive they refuse to say. Peculiar psychology! Or perhaps they have trouble reading words like 'public' and 'therapist'!
> 
> Anyway, either my suggestion of an independent mailing list or David Josephson's suggestion of making everyone a member of -08 would work, if SMPTE will co-operate.
> -- 
> OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
> Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it?
> 
> John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
> _______________________________________________
> SC-04-08 mailing list
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1>
 Mark Yonge 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3C7783567C-844A-44C0-AC43-697A8CF19F58%40aes.org%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">standards at aes.org
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 Thu Sep 5 08:19:54 MDT 2013
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<PRE>Dear SC-04-08,

Under our SMPTE liaison project AES-X216, I have posted a copy of a SMPTE working draft to this working group's site.  It is in Adobe PDF format and has the filename:
	x216-SMPTE_Pink_Noise_WorkingDraft_20130904_ver_0 2.pdf

A direct log-in is available at:
<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A>

PLEASE NOTE that this is a confidential document, like all documents posted to his site, and may not be copied outside this working group.

It is inappropriate for members of this group to comment individually to SMPTE as a result of this posting. Please feel free to discuss the technical content on the SC-04-08 email reflector. The subject will be discussed at the SC-04-08 meeting in New York next month. I would expect a report containing the group's considered response to be generated by SC-04-08 and to be sent by this secretariat to SMPTE following the NY meetings.

Thank you,

Mark Yonge
AES Standards Manager

<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>
tel: +44 1594 517200
skype: markyonge

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1>
 John Woodgate 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CgyrVW%2BFzbJKSFwUO%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk
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 Thu Sep 5 08:36:35 MDT 2013
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<PRE>In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">7783567C-844A-44C0-AC43-697A8CF19F58 at aes.org</A>>, dated Thu, 5 
Sep 2013, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> writes:

>
>Under our SMPTE liaison project AES-X216, I have posted a copy of a 
>SMPTE working draft to this working group's site. It is in Adobe PDF 
>format and has the filename:

Does anyone have a way of adding line numbers to a PDF? They make 
commenting SO MUCH easier.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all
give the same information.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
</PRE>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1>
 Jacques FUCHS TMS 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3C066E582D-D453-48B1-8B2F-F38EA7A778B4%40taylormadesystem.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com
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 Thu Sep 5 11:39:49 MDT 2013
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<PRE>Dear All

A first remark would be that a well defined pink noise is of course suitable for the final level calibration, but is rather far from enough for an ISO2969/SMPTE202 style transfer function (my suggestion : TF measured in amplitude AND group delay). For that kind of purpose, we should probably go toward the use of impulse response techniques, which will also show the incidence of the screens....
And speaking about loudness (and perceived high loudness), introducing distortion measurement would be necessary, as the mixer make movies more and more loud (especially the blockbusters).

This means quite a deep evolution of the SMPTE/ISO standards in order to be again ahead from the technique and technology.... and no longer trying to run behind....

kind regards

Le 5 sept. 2013 à 16:19, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> a écrit :

> Dear SC-04-08,
> 
> Under our SMPTE liaison project AES-X216, I have posted a copy of a SMPTE working draft to this working group's site. It is in Adobe PDF format and has the filename:
> 	x216-SMPTE_Pink_Noise_WorkingDraft_20130904_ver_0 2.pdf
> 
> A direct log-in is available at:
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A> 
> 
> PLEASE NOTE that this is a confidential document, like all documents posted to his site, and may not be copied outside this working group.
> 
> It is inappropriate for members of this group to comment individually to SMPTE as a result of this posting. Please feel free to discuss the technical content on the SC-04-08 email reflector. The subject will be discussed at the SC-04-08 meeting in New York next month. I would expect a report containing the group's considered response to be generated by SC-04-08 and to be sent by this secretariat to SMPTE following the NY meetings. 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> Mark Yonge
> AES Standards Manager
> 
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>
> tel: +44 1594 517200
> skype: markyonge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SC-04-08 mailing list
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>

Jacques FUCHS

<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>

Mobile : +33 633 503 604

Systemic acoustics. Sound system design. 
Sound system calibration & optimization.

www.taylormadesystem.com

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1>
 John Woodgate 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CfHcKrzGsXMKSFwBc%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk
 </A> 
 Thu Sep 5 11:57:00 MDT 2013
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<PRE>In message <004d01ceaa5c$f4980640$ddc812c0$@aes.org>, dated Thu, 5 Sep 
2013, Bruce C. Olson <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">bco at aes.org</A>> writes:

>It seems I can't upload a file with a name longer than 32 characters. 
>Here is an attempt at line-numbering the PDF that almost works.

What did you use to do that? The line spacing is too small and the line 
numbering needs to be continuous (because page lengths get changed and 
that totally screws up numbering per page).

But it's definitely a start.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all
give the same information.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
</PRE>

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 <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1>
 Thomas Lagö 
 <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CBLU0-SMTP442291B006901564DE80A77CC330%40phx.gbl%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">thomaslago at msn.com
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 Thu Sep 5 12:05:19 MDT 2013
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<PRE>Dear All,

I suggest the use of FRF instead of Transfer Function since it is a measured function, not a theoretical model.

Further, the IR method (Impulse Response) is mathematically okay but has some "challenges" in practical applications. Chirp or a synchronised PRBS/MLS has key advantages. I would like to see a deeper discussion on this topic. Random noise (white or pink) has its advantages for non-linear systems and of the questions would be: is that needed for speakers or not? How non-linear are they (An LTI system response, that is)?

I am open for a discussion on the topic. I have 30+ years experience from designing generators for multiple applications, linear and non-linear.

Best regards,
Thomas Lagö

On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Jacques FUCHS TMS <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>> wrote:

> Dear All
> 
> A first remark would be that a well defined pink noise is of course suitable for the final level calibration, but is rather far from enough for an ISO2969/SMPTE202 style transfer function (my suggestion : TF measured in amplitude AND group delay). For that kind of purpose, we should probably go toward the use of impulse response techniques, which will also show the incidence of the screens....
> And speaking about loudness (and perceived high loudness), introducing distortion measurement would be necessary, as the mixer make movies more and more loud (especially the blockbusters).
> 
> This means quite a deep evolution of the SMPTE/ISO standards in order to be again ahead from the technique and technology.... and no longer trying to run behind....
> 
> kind regards
> 
> Le 5 sept. 2013 à 16:19, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> a écrit :
> 
>> Dear SC-04-08,
>> 
>> Under our SMPTE liaison project AES-X216, I have posted a copy of a SMPTE working draft to this working group's site. It is in Adobe PDF format and has the filename:
>> 	x216-SMPTE_Pink_Noise_WorkingDraft_20130904_ver_0 2.pdf
>> 
>> A direct log-in is available at:
>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A> 
>> 
>> PLEASE NOTE that this is a confidential document, like all documents posted to his site, and may not be copied outside this working group.
>> 
>> It is inappropriate for members of this group to comment individually to SMPTE as a result of this posting. Please feel free to discuss the technical content on the SC-04-08 email reflector. The subject will be discussed at the SC-04-08 meeting in New York next month. I would expect a report containing the group's considered response to be generated by SC-04-08 and to be sent by this secretariat to SMPTE following the NY meetings. 
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Yonge
>> AES Standards Manager
>> 
>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>
>> tel: +44 1594 517200
>> skype: markyonge
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> SC-04-08 mailing list
>> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>
> 
> Jacques FUCHS 
> 
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>
> 
> Mobile : +33 633 503 604
> 
> Systemic acoustics. Sound system design. 
> Sound system calibration & optimization.
> 
> www.taylormadesystem.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SC-04-08 mailing list
> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>
> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>>
> 

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