Timeline – Richard Cabot

SC-04-08

Richard Cabot posted an update in the group SC-04-08
3 weeks ago
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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] - Warsaw </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] - Warsaw</H1> philip newell <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20-%20Warsaw&In-Reply-To=%3CCAEEhACnetMpy%3D_ObAQL2S-j3ieUAs3BF%3D9aB5rS1DX4peG6kSA%40mail.gmail.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] - Warsaw">philiprnewell at gmail.com </A> Tue Apr 28 04:33:39 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000296.html">[SC-04-08] - Warsaw </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000298.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#297">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#297">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#297">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#297">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Dear Brian, Much of it is new territory for the mixers as well. Some of the expectations of what can be done are perhaps not realistic. Best wishes, Philip On 28 April 2015 at 05:07, Brian McCarty <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">bmccarty at coralseastudios.com</A>> wrote: > Well that’s a bummer. But thanks for thinking of me anyway, Philip. > > You heard yesterday the level of acoustical knowledge that’s now > inhabiting the immersive group. Roger Dressler is a terrific ally, but I > wonder why no one from Dolby proffers an opinion. Maybe they don’t know, > either? > > Brian > > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 6:31 pm, philip newell <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">philiprnewell at gmail.com</A>> > wrote: > > > > Quite incredibly, I cannot get from Vigo (Spain) to Warsaw and back (on > the > > 6th and 11th) within single days of travelling there and back. It can > only > > be done with an overnight stay, en route, in one direction and 14 hours > of > > travelling in the other direction with a need to get to an airport by > 4.30 > > am. It is all out of the question. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Philip > > > > > > > > On 27 April 2015 at 06:42, david murphy <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dmurphy at krix.com.au</A>> wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> I will not be in Warsaw, but intend to be at AES NY. > >> I hope you have a productive meeting. > >> warm regards from Down Under > >> David > >> > >> David Murphy > >> Loudspeaker Design Engineer > >> Commercial Cinema > >> > >> Krix > >> 14 Chapman Road | Hackham SA 5163 | Australia > >> T +618 83843433 | F +618 83843419 > >> Email: <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dmurphy at krix.com</A> | Web: www.krix.com > >> > >> > >> > >> DISCLAIMER: > >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the > >> intended recipient and may be privileged. If you are not the intended > >> recipient, please notify Krix immediately. Whilst we have used software > to > >> alert us to the presence of computer viruses, we cannot guarantee that > this > >> email and any files transmitted with it are free from them. > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: SC-04-08 [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08-bounces at standards.aes.org</A>] On Behalf Of Eddy > B. > >> Brixen [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">ebb at ebb-consult.com</A>] > >> Sent: Wednesday, 22 April 2015 12:47 AM > >> To: 'Working group on Measurement and equalization of sound systems > >> in rooms' > >> Subject: Re: [SC-04-08] - Warsaw > >> > >> Hi Brian, > >> I'll chair the meeting in Warsaw. > >> Cheers > >> Eddy > >> > >> Eddy B. Brixen > >> consultant > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: SC-04-08 [mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08-bounces at standards.aes.org</A>] On Behalf Of > >> Brian McCarty > >> Sent: 21. april 2015 15:25 > >> To: Bruce Olson; <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> > >> Cc: Andres Mayo; Francis Rumsey > >> Subject: [SC-04-08] - Warsaw > >> > >> There has no agenda been posted for SC-04-08 in Warsaw. > >> > >> Has a new chair been named? > >> Who’s managing the meeting in Warsaw? > >> > >> > >> Brian McCarty > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SC-04-08 mailing list > >> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> > >> < > >> > <A HREF="http://cp.mcafee.com/d/FZsS739J5xcQsK9CzBxNUTsSzssCqen7TXL6QrzAPhOU-VtYSzssCqen7TXCzASzssOCqenQT4Pq2Hslypo55oO3-nXmPpmcw_B-RISqektsspvvW_9Icf8CzDHTbFIEFY-MyOUZR4nRHFGThpVkffGhBrwqrhdFCXYyUqenAkmkXL6XCM0t9X13oEkXvFM07amWPGF8d3zzhOyrFoLtwLtUKgGT2TQ1l9X13oEkXvFM04SOMMyr1vF6y0QJz0AnKMnKYqnjh0nd402X6CC3qr9KSLZyXsL">http://cp.mcafee.com/d/FZsS739J5xcQsK9CzBxNUTsSzssCqen7TXL6QrzAPhOU-VtYSzssCqen7TXCzASzssOCqenQT4Pq2Hslypo55oO3-nXmPpmcw_B-RISqektsspvvW_9Icf8CzDHTbFIEFY-MyOUZR4nRHFGThpVkffGhBrwqrhdFCXYyUqenAkmkXL6XCM0t9X13oEkXvFM07amWPGF8d3zzhOyrFoLtwLtUKgGT2TQ1l9X13oEkXvFM04SOMMyr1vF6y0QJz0AnKMnKYqnjh0nd402X6CC3qr9KSLZyXsL</A> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SC-04-08 mailing list > >> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> > >> < > >> > <A HREF="http://cp.mcafee.com/d/2DRPoQ86Qm4PhOUCqem77ztPqdNOpEVsvvKYrhKejd7bzXBTPqdNOpEVsvvKqejqdNPapEVvjsjdEaJNm9Bwklz8fVvJrdBoO3-nXmPpEVhRNNBZ_HYCMMYyqeuLsKCOyDPX2bbzTkhvmKCHt5DBgY-F6lK1FJcSCrLObxEVuhhpjKYrKr01QDI4dyxjJ-D00sFrHeGAwQeed7a9KByZS2ZTyV2Hsbvg5kDI4dyxjJ-D00jrb329I5-Aq83iSc2huX1uXNFtd41sQg0bIqqodFICRcggLw7b">http://cp.mcafee.com/d/2DRPoQ86Qm4PhOUCqem77ztPqdNOpEVsvvKYrhKejd7bzXBTPqdNOpEVsvvKqejqdNPapEVvjsjdEaJNm9Bwklz8fVvJrdBoO3-nXmPpEVhRNNBZ_HYCMMYyqeuLsKCOyDPX2bbzTkhvmKCHt5DBgY-F6lK1FJcSCrLObxEVuhhpjKYrKr01QDI4dyxjJ-D00sFrHeGAwQeed7a9KByZS2ZTyV2Hsbvg5kDI4dyxjJ-D00jrb329I5-Aq83iSc2huX1uXNFtd41sQg0bIqqodFICRcggLw7b</A> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SC-04-08 mailing list > >> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> > >> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > SC-04-08 mailing list > > <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> > > <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> > > _______________________________________________ > SC-04-08 mailing list > <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> > <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> > </PRE>  <HR> <UL>  <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000296.html">[SC-04-08] - Warsaw </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000298.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#297">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#297">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html...

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document</H1> AES Standards <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Liaison%20report%3A%20AES-X215%20on%20SMPTE%20Modern%20Calibration%0A%09document&In-Reply-To=%3C5665B0A1-7EAB-4871-9715-6D38D0ECDD26%40aes.org%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document">standards at aes.org </A> Fri May 1 12:15:35 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000297.html">[SC-04-08] - Warsaw </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000299.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#298">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#298">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#298">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#298">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Dear SC-04-08, PS: Because AES email reflectors do not support attachments, SC-04-08 members can find the attached documents on the secure document site at: <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A> x215-150430-AES-comments-to-SMPTE.pdf SMPTE-Modern-Calibration-RP-AES-commented 2015-04-17.docx > To: Alan Lambshead <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alan.lambshead at icloud.com</A>>, <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alambshead at smpte.org</A>, <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">liaisons at lists.smpte.org</A> > Dear Alan, > > Please find attached our liaison report for project AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document. > > Sincerely, > > > Mark Yonge > AES Standards Manager > > <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A> > tel: +44 1594 517200 > skype: markyonge > </PRE>  <HR> <UL>  <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000297.html">[SC-04-08] - Warsaw </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000299.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#298">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#298">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#298">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#298">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a> 

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document</H1> Brian McCarty <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Liaison%20report%3A%20AES-X215%20on%20SMPTE%20Modern%20Calibration%0A%09document&In-Reply-To=%3CE827D61F-7E6F-4FAE-A7FF-A7DF699BFB3C%40coralseastudios.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document">bmccarty at coralseastudios.com </A> Fri May 1 13:25:28 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000298.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000300.html">[SC-04-08] GoToMeeting Invitation - AES138 Warsaw working group SC-04-08 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#299">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#299">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#299">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#299">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>SC-04-08, I would suggest that it’s difficult for us to have any impact on the documents being developed at the SMPTE when our response isn’t timely. The original formal liaison request from the SMPTE asked for a response on this (x215) and the Standardized Pink Noise document drafts (x216) by November 1, 2014. A number of members produced detailed responses to these two documents in a timely way, as well as vigorous comments on the SC-04-08 reflector - which were expected by the members to be collated and sent to the SMPTE in a timely way in order to benefit both societies and enhance our abilities to work together. The x216 response was sent to the SMPTE on January 20, 2015 - after the SMPTE set the document down for ballot. Now we’ve been sent from the Secretariat (after numerous attempts by me to have the formal response generated) the AES comments on x215 on May 1, 2015 - fully six months after the requested response. This is unacceptable to me as a member of these groups, and chair of the TC-SDCTV which initiated this work. This has failed the AES members and brought us into disrepute in this collaboration. I am profoundly disappointed in this action by the AES Standards management, and the Society has been profoundly embarrassed by the failure to produce this information in a timely way. Brian McCarty > On 1 May 2015, at 7:15 pm, AES Standards <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>>> wrote: > > Dear SC-04-08, > > PS: Because AES email reflectors do not support attachments, SC-04-08 members can find the attached documents on the secure document site at: > <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A> <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A>> > > x215-150430-AES-comments-to-SMPTE.pdf > SMPTE-Modern-Calibration-RP-AES-commented 2015-04-17.docx > >> To: Alan Lambshead <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alan.lambshead at icloud.com</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alan.lambshead at icloud.com</A>>>, <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alambshead at smpte.org</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">alambshead at smpte.org</A>>, <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">liaisons at lists.smpte.org</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">liaisons at lists.smpte.org</A>> > >> Dear Alan, >> >> Please find attached our liaison report for project AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> Mark Yonge >> AES Standards Manager >> >> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> >> tel: +44 1594 517200 >> skype: markyonge >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SC-04-08 mailing list > <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> > <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </PRE>  <HR> <UL>  <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000298.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000300.html">[SC-04-08] GoToMeeting Invitation - AES138 Warsaw working group SC-04-08 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#299">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#299">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#299">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#299">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a> 

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] GoToMeeting Invitation - AES138 Warsaw working group SC-04-08 </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] GoToMeeting Invitation - AES138 Warsaw working group SC-04-08</H1> AES Standards <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20GoToMeeting%20Invitation%20-%20AES138%20Warsaw%20working%20group%0A%09SC-04-08&In-Reply-To=%3C1BC80EBA-C379-4AD7-B8E3-0E38B54F1A20%40aes.org%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] GoToMeeting Invitation - AES138 Warsaw working group SC-04-08">standards at aes.org </A> Thu May 7 07:23:51 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000299.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000301.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#300">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#300">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#300">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#300">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Dear SC-04-08, Please find below the GoToMeeting call-in information for the SC-04-08 meeting in Warsaw on Saturday, 9 May. Note that final decisions are not made in these meetings. Any proposals made during this meeting must be accepted by the working group as a whole based on the meeting’s output report, or a specific email call for comment. To save stressing the VoIP echo-cancellation algorithms (which sounds horrible), please consider using a headset even if you need to use the microphone in your laptop. Please also keep your microphone muted unless you need to speak. regards, Mark Yonge AES Standards Manager 1. Please join my meeting, 9 May 2015 at 16:00 CEST. <A HREF="https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/339852637">https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/339852637</A> 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone. United Kingdom: +44 (0) 330 221 0086 Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 1403 Belgium: +32 (0) 28 93 7019 Canada: +1 (647) 497-9351 Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 88 64 Finland: +358 (0) 942 41 5780 France: +33 (0) 182 880 459 Germany: +49 (0) 692 5736 7210 Ireland: +353 (0) 14 845 978 Italy: +39 0 553 98 95 67 Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 080 381 New Zealand: +64 (0) 4 974 7214 Norway: +47 21 03 58 98 Spain: +34 931 81 6669 Sweden: +46 (0) 853 527 836 Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0167 09 United States: +1 (224) 501-3217 Access Code: 339-852-637 Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting Meeting ID: 339-852-637 GoToMeeting® Online Meetings Made Easy® Not at your computer? Click the link to join this meeting from your iPhone®, iPad®, Android® or Windows Phone® device via the GoToMeeting app. Mark Yonge AES Standards Manager <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A> </PRE>  <HR> <UL>  <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000299.html">[SC-04-08] Liaison report: AES-X215 on SMPTE Modern Calibration document </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000301.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#300">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#300">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#300">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#300">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a> 

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Report AES 138</H1> Eddy B. Brixen <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Report%20AES%20138&In-Reply-To=%3C002101d10214%24d81fa8d0%24885efa70%24%40ebb-consult.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Report AES 138">ebb at ebb-consult.com </A> Thu Oct 8 18:01:11 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000300.html">[SC-04-08] GoToMeeting Invitation - AES138 Warsaw working group SC-04-08 </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000302.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#301">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#301">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#301">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#301">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Dear WG of SC-04-08, Please find below the report of May 2015 meeting Br, Eddy B. Brixen SC-04-08 meeting report, Warsaw, May 2015. The meeting was convened by interim chair Eddy B. Brixen. The secretary presented the formal notice on patent policy. The Agenda and report of the previous meeting, held in Los Angeles, CA, USA 2014-10-10, were accepted as written. Development Projects AES-X215 - "Liaison with SMPTE project to codify current procedures to calibrate the cinema B-chain." Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. AES-X216 - "Liaison with SMPTE project on Calibration Pink-Noise Standard and Test File." Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. AES-X218 - "Measurement and calibration of sound systems in rooms." The main topic of the meeting was this project. One inspiration for this project is, of course, the SMPTE document. However, as this solely apply to digital cinema sound systems; it will not completely cover the needs of the AES-project, as X218 should be relevant also in connection with rooms that are more complex and complex systems. The implication of amplified microphones is one issue. Number of microphone positions or measurement points The standard deviation more or less defines the number of measurement points. Brian Vessa mentioned that his upcoming report regarding cinema check (to be finished by September 2015) suggested five positions. This procedure is not for the calibration of new installations, just for the verification of existing ones. Further, it primarily deals with rooms having only one seating area. For venues having more than a primary seating area, for instance, rooms with balconies, this has to be evaluated separately. Cengale and Mateos from Dolby presented a paper in 2014. The title is "Effect of microphone number and positioning on the average of frequency responses in cinema calibration" (AES Preprint 9083). This paper concludes that there is no reason for more than 8 microphone positions within a single area. In rooms with less homogenous sound distribution it is not possible just to average eight microphones, as some may happen to be positioned in poorly covered spots. Each point should be evaluated separately. Averaging data is throwing data away. Bad systems may require more microphone positions. However, more measurements does not make the speaker system perform better. To avoid an unrealistic high number of positions, rooms should be classified so the expectations more or less define how detailed measurements that should be performed. Among the members of the group, the implementation of 8-9 microphone positions seem to be common and scaling up for larger rooms. Thomas Lago: Taking the coherence into account gives the possibility of knowing whether the measurement relates to the speaker measured. The accepted coherence can be defined in relation to the quality of the measurement. However, in rooms like concert halls for classic music the coherence may become low due to reverberation. If basing measurements on coherence the limits must be defined depending on room type. The group shortly touched on measurement techniques for mapping measurement results, including the involvement of wireless techniques. What kind of measurement microphone should apply? Diffuse field / free field / Head and Torso? If the coherence is low it doesn't matter what kind of microphone or is chosen. On the other hand, HATS provide a result closer to the perceived sound although they are expensive and time consuming to move around. Less expensive ear-simulators should be available but still, implementation is not a feasible solution at this point. In a near future it should be considered to apply microphone arrays for 3D measurements as it is already implemented for concert hall measurements. Object based audio also apply ceiling speakers, thus a 3D presentation of the sound field can be of interest. However, so far we are aiming for the simple solution utilizing single point pressure microphones. No final conclusion was made regarding the number of microphone positions. However, all group members were requested to forward ideas on best practice based on their daily work. Measurement signal It should be possible to synchronize the measurement system to the signal. This excludes the old method of just applying a pink noise generator and do the measurement with a RTA. Therefore, the final methodology should build on impulse response by applying MLS or the like. Front-end microphones / acoustic feedback The basic purpose of many PA/SR systems is to provide amplification to microphone signals. Too much amplification produces unwanted acoustic feedback. Do we need to develop a method to measure SPL before feedback in order to document the threshold of instability? The NT ACOU 108 has a method that provides data on this. In the discussion, it was mentioned that it should be possible to document this basic system. However, there are many parameters to define like microphone position, microphone directivity and so on. No conclusion was made on this topic. The group should look up papers related to acoustic feedback problems. Speech Intelligibility On this, we rely completely on IEC 60268-16 (Speech Transmission Index). The measurements are carried out in exactly the same microphone positions as applied for other measures. Maximum SPL It should be possible to document the maximum SPL of a system. In some cases like in the calibrated cinema, the required level is given. In other systems is must be defined by some kind of non-destructive procedure. We need to define for how long time this max SPL should be present. Similar considerations exist on the component side. The AES2 standard actually goes into this. The problem is to define short term / long term (Long term = lifetime?). We will learn from the AES2 revision to define common terms if possible. Acoustical noise It is important to measure the emitted acoustic noise from the system (hiss from speakers, ENF-components, fans, etc.). It was suggested to document this by measuring spectra. One measurement of the noise spectrum with the system on and one or two measurements with the system off; two measurements, for worst and best case scenario regarding room settings of ventilation, light and so on. Distortion Distortion is very difficult to measure. Often the rattling of mechanical elements in the room are heard before the distortion. If considering the coherence measurement it is avoided to perform distortion measurements. If the system distorts the coherence simply is reduced. Actually, this is a topic for further study. We should encourage universities to let students study this for their thesis. Presenting data We should recommend standard forms for the reporting of measured results. It should not be mandatory; however, in most cases it would ensure full and sufficient information for a report. The SMPTE standard will include a number of forms. We will get inspired from this when published. Liaisons There were no new liaison issues. New Projects Bob Lee and Jan Abildgaard have mentioned a project: Amplifier sizing for passive loudspeakers. It is not yet an official project but we can expect this to end up in SC-04-08. John Woodgate asked for a test method for rating human speakers with regard to achieved speech intelligibility. No method exists - but needed. New Business None Next meeting October NY, NY. </PRE>  <HR> <UL>  <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000300.html">[SC-04-08] GoToMeeting Invitation - AES138 Warsaw working group SC-04-08 </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000302.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#301">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#301">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#301">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#301">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information ...

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Report AES 138</H1> Peter Mapp <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Report%20AES%20138&In-Reply-To=%3CA225B70D-34F5-46A2-9AB6-D7A4AA1ED118%40petermapp.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Report AES 138">peter at petermapp.com </A> Fri Oct 9 03:00:09 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000301.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000303.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#302">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#302">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#302">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#302">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Hi Eddy Thanks for excellent report. Looks like some good progress was made in Warsaw. I look forward to the meeting in New York. Best regards Peter Sent from my iPad > On 8 Oct 2015, at 23:04, Eddy B. Brixen via SC-04-08 <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> wrote: > > Dear WG of SC-04-08, > Please find below the report of May 2015 meeting > Br, Eddy B. Brixen > > SC-04-08 meeting report, Warsaw, May 2015. > > The meeting was convened by interim chair Eddy B. Brixen. > > The secretary presented the formal notice on patent policy. > > The Agenda and report of the previous meeting, held in Los Angeles, CA, USA > 2014-10-10, were accepted as written. > > Development Projects > AES-X215 - "Liaison with SMPTE project to codify current procedures to > calibrate the cinema B-chain." > Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. > This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. > > AES-X216 - "Liaison with SMPTE project on Calibration Pink-Noise Standard > and Test File." > Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. > This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. > > AES-X218 - "Measurement and calibration of sound systems in rooms." > The main topic of the meeting was this project. > > One inspiration for this project is, of course, the SMPTE document. However, > as this solely apply to digital cinema sound systems; it will not completely > cover the needs of the AES-project, as X218 should be relevant also in > connection with rooms that are more complex and complex systems. The > implication of amplified microphones is one issue. > > Number of microphone positions or measurement points > The standard deviation more or less defines the number of measurement > points. Brian Vessa mentioned that his upcoming report regarding cinema > check (to be finished by September 2015) suggested five positions. This > procedure is not for the calibration of new installations, just for the > verification of existing ones. Further, it primarily deals with rooms having > only one seating area. For venues having more than a primary seating area, > for instance, rooms with balconies, this has to be evaluated separately. > > Cengale and Mateos from Dolby presented a paper in 2014. The title is > "Effect of microphone number and positioning on the average of frequency > responses in cinema calibration" (AES Preprint 9083). This paper concludes > that there is no reason for more than 8 microphone positions within a single > area. > > In rooms with less homogenous sound distribution it is not possible just to > average eight microphones, as some may happen to be positioned in poorly > covered spots. Each point should be evaluated separately. Averaging data is > throwing data away. Bad systems may require more microphone positions. > However, more measurements does not make the speaker system perform better. > To avoid an unrealistic high number of positions, rooms should be classified > so the expectations more or less define how detailed measurements that > should be performed. > > Among the members of the group, the implementation of 8-9 microphone > positions seem to be common and scaling up for larger rooms. > > Thomas Lago: Taking the coherence into account gives the possibility of > knowing whether the measurement relates to the speaker measured. The > accepted coherence can be defined in relation to the quality of the > measurement. However, in rooms like concert halls for classic music the > coherence may become low due to reverberation. If basing measurements on > coherence the limits must be defined depending on room type. > > The group shortly touched on measurement techniques for mapping measurement > results, including the involvement of wireless techniques. > > What kind of measurement microphone should apply? Diffuse field / free field > / Head and Torso? If the coherence is low it doesn't matter what kind of > microphone or is chosen. On the other hand, HATS provide a result closer to > the perceived sound although they are expensive and time consuming to move > around. Less expensive ear-simulators should be available but still, > implementation is not a feasible solution at this point. In a near future it > should be considered to apply microphone arrays for 3D measurements as it is > already implemented for concert hall measurements. Object based audio also > apply ceiling speakers, thus a 3D presentation of the sound field can be of > interest. However, so far we are aiming for the simple solution utilizing > single point pressure microphones. > > No final conclusion was made regarding the number of microphone positions. > However, all group members were requested to forward ideas on best practice > based on their daily work. > > Measurement signal > It should be possible to synchronize the measurement system to the signal. > This excludes the old method of just applying a pink noise generator and do > the measurement with a RTA. Therefore, the final methodology should build on > impulse response by applying MLS or the like. > > Front-end microphones / acoustic feedback > The basic purpose of many PA/SR systems is to provide amplification to > microphone signals. Too much amplification produces unwanted acoustic > feedback. Do we need to develop a method to measure SPL before feedback in > order to document the threshold of instability? The NT ACOU 108 has a method > that provides data on this. In the discussion, it was mentioned that it > should be possible to document this basic system. However, there are many > parameters to define like microphone position, microphone directivity and so > on. No conclusion was made on this topic. The group should look up papers > related to acoustic feedback problems. > > Speech Intelligibility > On this, we rely completely on IEC 60268-16 (Speech Transmission Index). The > measurements are carried out in exactly the same microphone positions as > applied for other measures. > > Maximum SPL > It should be possible to document the maximum SPL of a system. In some cases > like in the calibrated cinema, the required level is given. In other systems > is must be defined by some kind of non-destructive procedure. We need to > define for how long time this max SPL should be present. Similar > considerations exist on the component side. The AES2 standard actually goes > into this. The problem is to define short term / long term (Long term = > lifetime?). We will learn from the AES2 revision to define common terms if > possible. > > Acoustical noise > It is important to measure the emitted acoustic noise from the system (hiss > from speakers, ENF-components, fans, etc.). It was suggested to document > this by measuring spectra. One measurement of the noise spectrum with the > system on and one or two measurements with the system off; two measurements, > for worst and best case scenario regarding room settings of ventilation, > light and so on...

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Report AES 138</H1> david murphy <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Report%20AES%20138&In-Reply-To=%3CDC98EF6CF2F08F40AA5AA23B3509EDA9804D5E7B31%40KRIX-DC.Krix.local%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Report AES 138">dmurphy at krix.com.au </A> Fri Oct 9 03:59:07 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000302.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000304.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#303">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#303">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#303">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#303">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Hi Peter, would I be able to have 15 minutes of the C'tee's time to present a few slides of the results of my simulations and measurements using a low frequency end-fire array of 8 microphones. It shows some promise in dis-entangling the room reflections, but it seems to me needs some more development... I am presenting a paper in the Cinema Sound session - last thing on Sunday, paralleled with the session on Sound Reinforcement chaired by you. best regards David David Murphy Loudspeaker Design Engineer Commercial Cinema Krix 14 Chapman Road | Hackham SA 5163 | Australia T +618 83843433 | F +618 83843419 Email: <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dmurphy at krix.com</A> | Web: www.krix.com DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the intended recipient and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Krix immediately. Whilst we have used software to alert us to the presence of computer viruses, we cannot guarantee that this email and any files transmitted with it are free from them. ________________________________________ From: SC-04-08 [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08-bounces at standards.aes.org</A>] On Behalf Of Peter Mapp via SC-04-08 [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>] Sent: Friday, 9 October 2015 5:30 PM To: Eddy B. Brixen; Working group on Measurement and equalization of sound systems in rooms Subject: Re: [SC-04-08] Report AES 138 Hi Eddy Thanks for excellent report. Looks like some good progress was made in Warsaw. I look forward to the meeting in New York. Best regards Peter Sent from my iPad > On 8 Oct 2015, at 23:04, Eddy B. Brixen via SC-04-08 <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> wrote: > > Dear WG of SC-04-08, > Please find below the report of May 2015 meeting > Br, Eddy B. Brixen > > SC-04-08 meeting report, Warsaw, May 2015. > > The meeting was convened by interim chair Eddy B. Brixen. > > The secretary presented the formal notice on patent policy. > > The Agenda and report of the previous meeting, held in Los Angeles, CA, USA > 2014-10-10, were accepted as written. > > Development Projects > AES-X215 - "Liaison with SMPTE project to codify current procedures to > calibrate the cinema B-chain." > Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. > This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. > > AES-X216 - "Liaison with SMPTE project on Calibration Pink-Noise Standard > and Test File." > Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. > This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. > > AES-X218 - "Measurement and calibration of sound systems in rooms." > The main topic of the meeting was this project. > > One inspiration for this project is, of course, the SMPTE document. However, > as this solely apply to digital cinema sound systems; it will not completely > cover the needs of the AES-project, as X218 should be relevant also in > connection with rooms that are more complex and complex systems. The > implication of amplified microphones is one issue. > > Number of microphone positions or measurement points > The standard deviation more or less defines the number of measurement > points. Brian Vessa mentioned that his upcoming report regarding cinema > check (to be finished by September 2015) suggested five positions. This > procedure is not for the calibration of new installations, just for the > verification of existing ones. Further, it primarily deals with rooms having > only one seating area. For venues having more than a primary seating area, > for instance, rooms with balconies, this has to be evaluated separately. > > Cengale and Mateos from Dolby presented a paper in 2014. The title is > "Effect of microphone number and positioning on the average of frequency > responses in cinema calibration" (AES Preprint 9083). This paper concludes > that there is no reason for more than 8 microphone positions within a single > area. > > In rooms with less homogenous sound distribution it is not possible just to > average eight microphones, as some may happen to be positioned in poorly > covered spots. Each point should be evaluated separately. Averaging data is > throwing data away. Bad systems may require more microphone positions. > However, more measurements does not make the speaker system perform better. > To avoid an unrealistic high number of positions, rooms should be classified > so the expectations more or less define how detailed measurements that > should be performed. > > Among the members of the group, the implementation of 8-9 microphone > positions seem to be common and scaling up for larger rooms. > > Thomas Lago: Taking the coherence into account gives the possibility of > knowing whether the measurement relates to the speaker measured. The > accepted coherence can be defined in relation to the quality of the > measurement. However, in rooms like concert halls for classic music the > coherence may become low due to reverberation. If basing measurements on > coherence the limits must be defined depending on room type. > > The group shortly touched on measurement techniques for mapping measurement > results, including the involvement of wireless techniques. > > What kind of measurement microphone should apply? Diffuse field / free field > / Head and Torso? If the coherence is low it doesn't matter what kind of > microphone or is chosen. On the other hand, HATS provide a result closer to > the perceived sound although they are expensive and time consuming to move > around. Less expensive ear-simulators should be available but still, > implementation is not a feasible solution at this point. In a near future it > should be considered to apply microphone arrays for 3D measurements as it is > already implemented for concert hall measurements. Object based audio also > apply ceiling speakers, thus a 3D presentation of the sound field can be of > interest. However, so far we are aiming for the simple solution utilizing > single point pressure microphones. > > No final conclusion was made regarding the number of microphone positions. > However, all group members were requested to forward ideas on best practice > based on their daily work. > > Measurement signal > It should be possible to synchronize the measurement system to the signal. > This excludes the old method of just applying a pink noise generator and do > the measurement with a RTA. Therefore, the final methodology should build on > impulse response by applying MLS or the like. > > Front-end microphones / acoustic feedback > The basic purpose of many PA/SR systems is to provide amplification to > microphone signals. Too much amplification produces unwanted acoustic > feedback. Do we need to develop a method to measure SPL before feedback in > order to document the threshold of instability? The NT ACOU 108 has a method > that provides data on this. In the discussion, it was mentioned that it > should be possible to document this basic system. However, there are many > parameters to define like microphone position, microphone directivity and so > on. N...

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Report AES 138</H1> Peter Mapp <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Report%20AES%20138&In-Reply-To=%3CF84547FE-9D4F-46FC-9633-2572ED9A9B21%40petermapp.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Report AES 138">peter at petermapp.com </A> Fri Oct 9 05:46:04 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000303.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000305.html">[SC-04-08] Meetingin NY NY </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#304">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#304">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#304">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#304">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Hi David Fine with me - but I guess ( hope) that Eddy will be chairing the meeting - so need to also confirm it fits in with his schedule Peter Sent from my iPhone On 9 Oct 2015, at 09:04, "david murphy" <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dmurphy at krix.com.au</A>> wrote: > Hi Peter, > would I be able to have 15 minutes of the C'tee's time to present a few slides of the results of my simulations and measurements using a low frequency end-fire array of 8 microphones. It shows some promise in dis-entangling the room reflections, but it seems to me needs some more development... > I am presenting a paper in the Cinema Sound session - last thing on Sunday, paralleled with the session on Sound Reinforcement chaired by you. > > best regards > David > > > David Murphy > Loudspeaker Design Engineer > Commercial Cinema > > Krix > 14 Chapman Road | Hackham SA 5163 | Australia > T +618 83843433 | F +618 83843419 > Email: <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dmurphy at krix.com</A> | Web: www.krix.com > > > > DISCLAIMER: > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the intended recipient and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Krix immediately. Whilst we have used software to alert us to the presence of computer viruses, we cannot guarantee that this email and any files transmitted with it are free from them. > ________________________________________ > From: SC-04-08 [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08-bounces at standards.aes.org</A>] On Behalf Of Peter Mapp via SC-04-08 [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>] > Sent: Friday, 9 October 2015 5:30 PM > To: Eddy B. Brixen; Working group on Measurement and equalization of sound systems in rooms > Subject: Re: [SC-04-08] Report AES 138 > > Hi Eddy > Thanks for excellent report. Looks like some good progress was made in Warsaw. I look forward to the meeting in New York. > > Best regards > Peter > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 8 Oct 2015, at 23:04, Eddy B. Brixen via SC-04-08 <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> wrote: >> >> Dear WG of SC-04-08, >> Please find below the report of May 2015 meeting >> Br, Eddy B. Brixen >> >> SC-04-08 meeting report, Warsaw, May 2015. >> >> The meeting was convened by interim chair Eddy B. Brixen. >> >> The secretary presented the formal notice on patent policy. >> >> The Agenda and report of the previous meeting, held in Los Angeles, CA, USA >> 2014-10-10, were accepted as written. >> >> Development Projects >> AES-X215 - "Liaison with SMPTE project to codify current procedures to >> calibrate the cinema B-chain." >> Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. >> This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. >> >> AES-X216 - "Liaison with SMPTE project on Calibration Pink-Noise Standard >> and Test File." >> Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. >> This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. >> >> AES-X218 - "Measurement and calibration of sound systems in rooms." >> The main topic of the meeting was this project. >> >> One inspiration for this project is, of course, the SMPTE document. However, >> as this solely apply to digital cinema sound systems; it will not completely >> cover the needs of the AES-project, as X218 should be relevant also in >> connection with rooms that are more complex and complex systems. The >> implication of amplified microphones is one issue. >> >> Number of microphone positions or measurement points >> The standard deviation more or less defines the number of measurement >> points. Brian Vessa mentioned that his upcoming report regarding cinema >> check (to be finished by September 2015) suggested five positions. This >> procedure is not for the calibration of new installations, just for the >> verification of existing ones. Further, it primarily deals with rooms having >> only one seating area. For venues having more than a primary seating area, >> for instance, rooms with balconies, this has to be evaluated separately. >> >> Cengale and Mateos from Dolby presented a paper in 2014. The title is >> "Effect of microphone number and positioning on the average of frequency >> responses in cinema calibration" (AES Preprint 9083). This paper concludes >> that there is no reason for more than 8 microphone positions within a single >> area. >> >> In rooms with less homogenous sound distribution it is not possible just to >> average eight microphones, as some may happen to be positioned in poorly >> covered spots. Each point should be evaluated separately. Averaging data is >> throwing data away. Bad systems may require more microphone positions. >> However, more measurements does not make the speaker system perform better. >> To avoid an unrealistic high number of positions, rooms should be classified >> so the expectations more or less define how detailed measurements that >> should be performed. >> >> Among the members of the group, the implementation of 8-9 microphone >> positions seem to be common and scaling up for larger rooms. >> >> Thomas Lago: Taking the coherence into account gives the possibility of >> knowing whether the measurement relates to the speaker measured. The >> accepted coherence can be defined in relation to the quality of the >> measurement. However, in rooms like concert halls for classic music the >> coherence may become low due to reverberation. If basing measurements on >> coherence the limits must be defined depending on room type. >> >> The group shortly touched on measurement techniques for mapping measurement >> results, including the involvement of wireless techniques. >> >> What kind of measurement microphone should apply? Diffuse field / free field >> / Head and Torso? If the coherence is low it doesn't matter what kind of >> microphone or is chosen. On the other hand, HATS provide a result closer to >> the perceived sound although they are expensive and time consuming to move >> around. Less expensive ear-simulators should be available but still, >> implementation is not a feasible solution at this point. In a near future it >> should be considered to apply microphone arrays for 3D measurements as it is >> already implemented for concert hall measurements. Object based audio also >> apply ceiling speakers, thus a 3D presentation of the sound field can be of >> interest. However, so far we are aiming for the simple solution utilizing >> single point pressure microphones. >> >> No final conclusion was made regarding the number of microphone positions. >> However, all group members were requested to forward ideas on best practice >&...

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Meetingin NY NY </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Meetingin NY NY</H1> david murphy <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Meetingin%20NY%20NY&In-Reply-To=%3CDC98EF6CF2F08F40AA5AA23B3509EDA9804D5E7B32%40KRIX-DC.Krix.local%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Meetingin NY NY">dmurphy at krix.com.au </A> Fri Oct 9 19:29:25 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000304.html">[SC-04-08] Report AES 138 </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000306.html">[SC-04-08] Talker training </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#305">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#305">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#305">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#305">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>Hi Eddie, I recently emailed Peter Mapp requesting a slot of 15 minutes in the forth coming meeting at AES 139 in NY. He suggested I contact you about the agenda for this meeting. I would like to present a summary of the theory of end-fire microphone arrays and some practical measurement results. I am presenting a formal paper at AES 139, in the last session on Cinema Sound :-(, but would like to present it to the specialist audience at SC-04-08. In brief, since I have noted that people are proposing to use more than the traditional 4 microphones as per SMPTE 202, in fact 8 microphones seems to be mentioned, I propose that a more effective use of 8 microphones is to use them in an end-fire array, a shotgun microphone writ large, as it were. I have analysed the basic theory and polar behaviour of an array of 8 microphones spaced 1 metre apart, and find it gives 'enough' directivity at 30Hz to provide some discrimination against the reflections from the rear and side walls of a typical cinema. I have done some COMSOL simulations at low frequencies showing the time delayed impulse responses, the time aligned and summed impulse response, and the frequency response by FFT in a typical cinema 28m deep by 18m wide by 8 m high. Since writing the paper I have also made measurements in the actual typical cinema, and manually time aligned the impulse responses and calculated the frequency response. In any event, I will be at AES 139, and hope to meet you there. warm regards David David Murphy Loudspeaker Design Engineer Commercial Cinema Krix 14 Chapman Road | Hackham SA 5163 | Australia T +618 83843433 | F +618 83843419 Email: <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dmurphy at krix.com</A> | Web: www.krix.com DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential to the intended recipient and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Krix immediately. Whilst we have used software to alert us to the presence of computer viruses, we cannot guarantee that this email and any files transmitted with it are free from them. ________________________________________ From: SC-04-08 [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08-bounces at standards.aes.org</A>] On Behalf Of Eddy B. Brixen via SC-04-08 [<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>] Sent: Friday, 9 October 2015 8:31 AM To: 'Working group on Measurement and equalization of sound systems in rooms' Subject: [SC-04-08] Report AES 138 Dear WG of SC-04-08, Please find below the report of May 2015 meeting Br, Eddy B. Brixen SC-04-08 meeting report, Warsaw, May 2015. The meeting was convened by interim chair Eddy B. Brixen. The secretary presented the formal notice on patent policy. The Agenda and report of the previous meeting, held in Los Angeles, CA, USA 2014-10-10, were accepted as written. Development Projects AES-X215 - "Liaison with SMPTE project to codify current procedures to calibrate the cinema B-chain." Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. AES-X216 - "Liaison with SMPTE project on Calibration Pink-Noise Standard and Test File." Since the last meeting, the AES comments have been reported to the SMPTE. This report fulfills the task and the project is now closed. AES-X218 - "Measurement and calibration of sound systems in rooms." The main topic of the meeting was this project. One inspiration for this project is, of course, the SMPTE document. However, as this solely apply to digital cinema sound systems; it will not completely cover the needs of the AES-project, as X218 should be relevant also in connection with rooms that are more complex and complex systems. The implication of amplified microphones is one issue. Number of microphone positions or measurement points The standard deviation more or less defines the number of measurement points. Brian Vessa mentioned that his upcoming report regarding cinema check (to be finished by September 2015) suggested five positions. This procedure is not for the calibration of new installations, just for the verification of existing ones. Further, it primarily deals with rooms having only one seating area. For venues having more than a primary seating area, for instance, rooms with balconies, this has to be evaluated separately. Cengale and Mateos from Dolby presented a paper in 2014. The title is "Effect of microphone number and positioning on the average of frequency responses in cinema calibration" (AES Preprint 9083). This paper concludes that there is no reason for more than 8 microphone positions within a single area. In rooms with less homogenous sound distribution it is not possible just to average eight microphones, as some may happen to be positioned in poorly covered spots. Each point should be evaluated separately. Averaging data is throwing data away. Bad systems may require more microphone positions. However, more measurements does not make the speaker system perform better. To avoid an unrealistic high number of positions, rooms should be classified so the expectations more or less define how detailed measurements that should be performed. Among the members of the group, the implementation of 8-9 microphone positions seem to be common and scaling up for larger rooms. Thomas Lago: Taking the coherence into account gives the possibility of knowing whether the measurement relates to the speaker measured. The accepted coherence can be defined in relation to the quality of the measurement. However, in rooms like concert halls for classic music the coherence may become low due to reverberation. If basing measurements on coherence the limits must be defined depending on room type. The group shortly touched on measurement techniques for mapping measurement results, including the involvement of wireless techniques. What kind of measurement microphone should apply? Diffuse field / free field / Head and Torso? If the coherence is low it doesn't matter what kind of microphone or is chosen. On the other hand, HATS provide a result closer to the perceived sound although they are expensive and time consuming to move around. Less expensive ear-simulators should be available but still, implementation is not a feasible solution at this point. In a near future it should be considered to apply microphone arrays for 3D measurements as it is already implemented for concert hall measurements. Object based audio also apply ceiling speakers, thus a 3D presentation of the sound field can be of interest. However, so far we are aiming for the simple solution utilizing single point pressure microphones. No final conclusion was made regarding the number of microphone positions. However, all group members were requested to forward ideas on best practice based on their daily work. Measurement signal It should be possible to synchronize the measurement system to the signal. This excludes the old method of just applying a pink noise generator and do the measurement with a RTA. Therefore, the final methodology should build on impulse response by applying MLS or the like. Front-end microphones / acoustic feedback The basic purpose of many PA/SR systems is to provide amplification to microphone signals. Too much amplification produces unwanted acoustic feedback. Do we need to develop a method to measure SPL before feedback in order to document the threshold of instability? The NT ACOU 108 has a method that provides data on this. In the discussion, it was mentioned that it should be possible to document this basic system. However, there are many parameters to define like microphone position, microphone directivity and so on. No conclusion was made on this topic. The group should look up papers related to acoustic feedback problems. Speech Intelligibility On this, we rely completely on IEC 60268-16 (Speech Transmission Index). The measurements are carried out in exactly the same microphone positions as applied for other measures. Maximum SPL It should be possible to document the maximum SPL of a system. In some cases like in the calibrated cinema, the required level is given. In other systems is must be defined by some kind of non-dest...

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<TITLE> [SC-04-08] Talker training </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Talker training</H1> John Woodgate <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Talker%20training&In-Reply-To=%3C00ce01d10292%240041fb60%2400c5f220%24%40btinternet.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Talker training">jmw1937 at btinternet.com </A> Fri Oct 9 08:57:05 EDT 2015 <UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000305.html">[SC-04-08] Meetingin NY NY </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000307.html">[SC-04-08] Talker training </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#306">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#306">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#306">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#306">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR>  <PRE>I mentioned this at the Warsaw meeting. and there has been some progress. We (a group of Brits, including Peter Mapp) will be approaching ISO TC159 through the BSI mirror committee PH/9, to produce a standard. Support from other countries through their ISO/TC159 mirror committees would be very welcome. The attached ZIP includes further information. With best wishes. OOO - Own Opinions Only. www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates RAYLEIGH Essex England Please note my new email address <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jmw1937 at btinternet.com</A> </PRE>  <HR> <UL>  <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000305.html">[SC-04-08] Meetingin NY NY </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000307.html">[SC-04-08] Talker training </A></li> <LI> Messages sorted by: <a href="date.html#306">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#306">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#306">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#306">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a> 

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