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Documents Folder Title Following special characters are not supported: \ / ? % * : | " < > Privacy Public All Members My Connections Only Me Cancel Create 000110.html 4 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>John Woodgate</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CP3XOXZHDdMKSFwAc%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk </A><BR> <I>Thu Sep 5 12:02:43 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000107.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000109.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#110">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#110">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#110">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#110">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">066E582D-D453-48B1-8B2F-F38EA7A778B4 at taylormadesystem.com</A>>, dated Thu, 5 Sep 2013, Jacques FUCHS TMS <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>> writes: ><i>A first remark would be that a well defined pink noise is of course </I>><i>suitable for the final level calibration, but is rather far from enough </I>><i>for an ISO2969/SMPTE202 style transfer function (my suggestion : TF </I>><i>measured in amplitude AND group delay). For that kind of purpose, we </I>><i>should probably go toward the use of impulse response techniques, which </I>><i>will also show the incidence of the screens.... </I> Earlier discussions suggest that many people more or less agree with that, but are looking to what is reasonably possible, not what would be ideal. ><i>And speaking about loudness (and perceived high loudness), introducing </I>><i>distortion measurement would be necessary, as the mixer make movies </I>><i>more and more loud (especially the blockbusters). </I> Loudness in a linear system is intractable enough. Introducing non-linearity leads to a thicket, not a solution. ><i> </I>><i>This means quite a deep evolution of the SMPTE/ISO standards in order </I>><i>to be again ahead from the technique and technology.... and no longer </I>><i>trying to run behind.... </I> Indeed, but who has the resources, time and energy to undertake such a project? This isn't even an AES project; we are just supposed to be helping SMPTE. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all give the same information. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000107.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000109.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#110">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#110">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#110">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#110">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 000111.html 8 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>Vessa, Brian</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3C08A9B41D-95E2-4010-8E3E-65D27A3B34DC%40spe.sony.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">Brian_Vessa at spe.sony.com </A><BR> <I>Thu Sep 5 12:25:48 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000109.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000112.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#111">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#111">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#111">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#111">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>Hi all- I just wanted to mention the scope of this document-- At this moment in time, pink noise is being used for both spectral and sound pressure level measurements and sound system calibration. As there is no standard pink noise signal in the industry for this, it's 'way past time to define one. That is ALL that this document is trying to do. Are there other, possibly better ways? Other signals, that might be better for certain applications? Better ways to measure? Yes. But these are the subject of another project. THIS particular document is strictly about defining a pink noise signal that can be used in the current work of calibrating spectral response and sound pressure level. So, please, if you could, focus on giving excellent comments on the parameters and specifications in sections 5-8 of the document. Any input on the other sections is appreciated, but the main focus is getting your comments on the actual parameters and specifications of the proposed standardized calibration pink noise signal. Cheers, Brian Brian Vessa Executive Director, Digital Audio Mastering Sony Pictures Entertainment 310-244-3306 office 310-779-9938 cell On Sep 5, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Thomas Lagö wrote: Dear All, I suggest the use of FRF instead of Transfer Function since it is a measured function, not a theoretical model. Further, the IR method (Impulse Response) is mathematically okay but has some "challenges" in practical applications. Chirp or a synchronised PRBS/MLS has key advantages. I would like to see a deeper discussion on this topic. Random noise (white or pink) has its advantages for non-linear systems and of the questions would be: is that needed for speakers or not? How non-linear are they (An LTI system response, that is)? I am open for a discussion on the topic. I have 30+ years experience from designing generators for multiple applications, linear and non-linear. Best regards, Thomas Lagö On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Jacques FUCHS TMS <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>>> wrote: Dear All A first remark would be that a well defined pink noise is of course suitable for the final level calibration, but is rather far from enough for an ISO2969/SMPTE202 style transfer function (my suggestion : TF measured in amplitude AND group delay). For that kind of purpose, we should probably go toward the use of impulse response techniques, which will also show the incidence of the screens.... And speaking about loudness (and perceived high loudness), introducing distortion measurement would be necessary, as the mixer make movies more and more loud (especially the blockbusters). This means quite a deep evolution of the SMPTE/ISO standards in order to be again ahead from the technique and technology.... and no longer trying to run behind.... kind regards Le 5 sept. 2013 à 16:19, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>>> a écrit : Dear SC-04-08, Under our SMPTE liaison project AES-X216, I have posted a copy of a SMPTE working draft to this working group's site. It is in Adobe PDF format and has the filename: x216-SMPTE_Pink_Noise_WorkingDraft_20130904_ver_0 2.pdf A direct log-in is available at: <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A> PLEASE NOTE that this is a confidential document, like all documents posted to his site, and may not be copied outside this working group. It is inappropriate for members of this group to comment individually to SMPTE as a result of this posting. Please feel free to discuss the technical content on the SC-04-08 email reflector. The subject will be discussed at the SC-04-08 meeting in New York next month. I would expect a report containing the group's considered response to be generated by SC-04-08 and to be sent by this secretariat to SMPTE following the NY meetings. Thank you, Mark Yonge AES Standards Manager <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> tel: +44 1594 517200 skype: markyonge _______________________________________________ SC-04-08 mailing list <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> Jacques FUCHS <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>> Mobile : +33 633 503 604 Systemic acoustics. Sound system design. Sound system calibration & optimization. www.taylormadesystem.com<<A HREF="http://www.taylormadesystem.com">http://www.taylormadesystem.com</A>> _______________________________________________ SC-04-08 mailing list <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> _______________________________________________ SC-04-08 mailing list <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000109.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000112.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#111">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#111">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#111">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#111">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 000113.html 4 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>Brian McCarty</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CA444F5E0-8E68-44F8-AE36-E210AC20A997%40coralseastudios.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">bmccarty at coralseastudios.com </A><BR> <I>Thu Sep 5 13:03:39 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000108.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000115.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#113">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#113">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#113">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#113">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>Why don't we just ask the SMPTE for a Word version we can use for markup, like is done normally at the SMPTE? Brian McCarty On 05/09/2013, at 12:57 PM, John Woodgate <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk</A>> wrote: ><i> In message <004d01ceaa5c$f4980640$ddc812c0$@aes.org>, dated Thu, 5 Sep 2013, Bruce C. Olson <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">bco at aes.org</A>> writes: </I>><i> </I>>><i> It seems I can't upload a file with a name longer than 32 characters. Here is an attempt at line-numbering the PDF that almost works. </I>><i> </I>><i> What did you use to do that? The line spacing is too small and the line numbering needs to be continuous (because page lengths get changed and that totally screws up numbering per page). </I>><i> </I>><i> But it's definitely a start. </I>><i> -- </I>><i> OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk </I>><i> If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all </I>><i> give the same information. </I>><i> John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I> </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000108.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000115.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#113">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#113">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#113">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#113">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 000112.html 10 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>Thomas Lagö</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CBLU0-SMTP102C9F3CEEC110BEF743808CC330%40phx.gbl%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">thomaslago at msn.com </A><BR> <I>Thu Sep 5 12:29:25 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000111.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000114.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#112">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#112">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#112">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#112">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>Thanks Brian. I was NOT aware of this but will focus my discussion on the Pink Noise only. Sorry for the confusion :-) I will send more info later. BR, Thomas On Sep 5, 2013, at 8:25 PM, "Vessa, Brian" <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">Brian_Vessa at spe.sony.com</A>> wrote: ><i> Hi all- </I>><i> </I>><i> I just wanted to mention the scope of this document-- </I>><i> </I>><i> At this moment in time, pink noise is being used for both spectral and sound pressure level measurements and sound system calibration. As there is no standard pink noise signal in the industry for this, it's 'way past time to define one. That is ALL that this document is trying to do. </I>><i> </I>><i> Are there other, possibly better ways? Other signals, that might be better for certain applications? Better ways to measure? Yes. But these are the subject of another project. THIS particular document is strictly about defining a pink noise signal that can be used in the current work of calibrating spectral response and sound pressure level. </I>><i> </I>><i> So, please, if you could, focus on giving excellent comments on the parameters and specifications in sections 5-8 of the document. Any input on the other sections is appreciated, but the main focus is getting your comments on the actual parameters and specifications of the proposed standardized calibration pink noise signal. </I>><i> </I>><i> Cheers, </I>><i> </I>><i> Brian </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> Brian Vessa </I>><i> Executive Director, Digital Audio Mastering </I>><i> Sony Pictures Entertainment </I>><i> 310-244-3306 office </I>><i> 310-779-9938 cell </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> On Sep 5, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Thomas Lagö wrote: </I>><i> </I>><i> Dear All, </I>><i> </I>><i> I suggest the use of FRF instead of Transfer Function since it is a measured function, not a theoretical model. </I>><i> </I>><i> Further, the IR method (Impulse Response) is mathematically okay but has some "challenges" in practical applications. Chirp or a synchronised PRBS/MLS has key advantages. I would like to see a deeper discussion on this topic. Random noise (white or pink) has its advantages for non-linear systems and of the questions would be: is that needed for speakers or not? How non-linear are they (An LTI system response, that is)? </I>><i> </I>><i> I am open for a discussion on the topic. I have 30+ years experience from designing generators for multiple applications, linear and non-linear. </I>><i> </I>><i> Best regards, </I>><i> Thomas Lagö </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Jacques FUCHS TMS <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>>> wrote: </I>><i> </I>><i> Dear All </I>><i> </I>><i> A first remark would be that a well defined pink noise is of course suitable for the final level calibration, but is rather far from enough for an ISO2969/SMPTE202 style transfer function (my suggestion : TF measured in amplitude AND group delay). For that kind of purpose, we should probably go toward the use of impulse response techniques, which will also show the incidence of the screens.... </I>><i> And speaking about loudness (and perceived high loudness), introducing distortion measurement would be necessary, as the mixer make movies more and more loud (especially the blockbusters). </I>><i> </I>><i> This means quite a deep evolution of the SMPTE/ISO standards in order to be again ahead from the technique and technology.... and no longer trying to run behind.... </I>><i> </I>><i> kind regards </I>><i> </I>><i> Le 5 sept. 2013 à 16:19, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>>> a écrit : </I>><i> </I>><i> Dear SC-04-08, </I>><i> </I>><i> Under our SMPTE liaison project AES-X216, I have posted a copy of a SMPTE working draft to this working group's site. It is in Adobe PDF format and has the filename: </I>><i> x216-SMPTE_Pink_Noise_WorkingDraft_20130904_ver_0 2.pdf </I>><i> </I>><i> A direct log-in is available at: </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A> </I>><i> </I>><i> PLEASE NOTE that this is a confidential document, like all documents posted to his site, and may not be copied outside this working group. </I>><i> </I>><i> It is inappropriate for members of this group to comment individually to SMPTE as a result of this posting. Please feel free to discuss the technical content on the SC-04-08 email reflector. The subject will be discussed at the SC-04-08 meeting in New York next month. I would expect a report containing the group's considered response to be generated by SC-04-08 and to be sent by this secretariat to SMPTE following the NY meetings. </I>><i> </I>><i> Thank you, </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> Mark Yonge </I>><i> AES Standards Manager </I>><i> </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> </I>><i> tel: +44 1594 517200 </I>><i> skype: markyonge </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> Jacques FUCHS </I>><i> </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> Mobile : +33 633 503 604 </I>><i> </I>><i> Systemic acoustics. Sound system design. </I>><i> Sound system calibration & optimization. </I>><i> </I>><i> www.taylormadesystem.com<<A HREF="http://www.taylormadesystem.com">http://www.taylormadesystem.com</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I>><i> </I> </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000111.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document post... 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Please download to view the full file. 000115.html 4 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>David Josephson</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3C52292414.1020403%40josephson.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">dlj at josephson.com </A><BR> <I>Thu Sep 5 18:38:44 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000113.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000116.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#115">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#115">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#115">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#115">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>I completely agree that a reference for pink noise (or any other mostly-random noise source) would be a valuable standard to have, and as far as I am aware does not exist, at least not as an electrical signal. ISO 6926 aka ANSI S12.5 specifies a mechanical noise source which has been successfully used for a long time; I am concerned that an attempt to standardize an electrical noise signal would gloss over the system variability between the electrical signal and the acoustic listener. So, my first comment to SMPTE would be to suggest tightening the scope of the proposed standard to caution against users thinking that having defined an electrical noise, they are any closer to defining an acoustic noise. Presumably, the goal of a B-chain calibration protocol is to achieve an acoustic signal at a listener location. The text suggests that it's a challenge to measure the level of a random signal. I don't think that's true -- what's a challenge is to decide what measurement is relevant to the task at hand. If we agree to not think about an elephant, and somehow the definition of an electrical pink noise is what's desired, there are lots of specific things to address in the proposal. I think the easiest way to specify the generation of a pink noise signal would be to show a block diagram describing the algorithm for a white noise generator and pinking filter. The description should use the poles and zeros method found e.g. in the sound level meter standards. Then the standard should describe a test algorithm to confirm that the desired amount of energy was present in each one-third octave band as desired. Some things are stated explicitly or implied, such as the goal that the signal be linear PCM at 96 ksps and 24 bits, and if this is the case then other parameters become less variable. David Josephson Chair, SC-04 </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000113.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000116.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#115">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#115">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#115">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#115">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 000114.html 11 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>Jacques FUCHS TMS</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3C5706FA86-6E4B-4CC4-9F66-DE6931DA0B0C%40taylormadesystem.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com </A><BR> <I>Thu Sep 5 17:50:59 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000112.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000108.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#114">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#114">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#114">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#114">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>Hi Brian OK for this document.... my remark was just to open windows for further documents to be defined. Standard pink noise has of course to be accurately defined (especially crest factor who can modify the readings by several dBs), but the intention of my remark was also to avoid to be stuck at this sole and alone approach for measurement and equalization of sound systems. You can have a system with two amplitude curves closer than +/- 0,1 dB (by the mean of electronic processors) with drastic differences in timbre and geometric construction in the stereophonic image.... and as I wrote in my former MAIL, pink noise and 1/3 octave analysis is very far than enough to characterize a sound system. I also do agree with the semantic remark of Thomas. By the way, when I tell "IR", just translate to MLS or shirp.... :-) kind regards Le 5 sept. 2013 à 20:25, "Vessa, Brian" <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">Brian_Vessa at spe.sony.com</A>> a écrit : ><i> Hi all- </I>><i> </I>><i> I just wanted to mention the scope of this document-- </I>><i> </I>><i> At this moment in time, pink noise is being used for both spectral and sound pressure level measurements and sound system calibration. As there is no standard pink noise signal in the industry for this, it's 'way past time to define one. That is ALL that this document is trying to do. </I>><i> </I>><i> Are there other, possibly better ways? Other signals, that might be better for certain applications? Better ways to measure? Yes. But these are the subject of another project. THIS particular document is strictly about defining a pink noise signal that can be used in the current work of calibrating spectral response and sound pressure level. </I>><i> </I>><i> So, please, if you could, focus on giving excellent comments on the parameters and specifications in sections 5-8 of the document. Any input on the other sections is appreciated, but the main focus is getting your comments on the actual parameters and specifications of the proposed standardized calibration pink noise signal. </I>><i> </I>><i> Cheers, </I>><i> </I>><i> Brian </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> Brian Vessa </I>><i> Executive Director, Digital Audio Mastering </I>><i> Sony Pictures Entertainment </I>><i> 310-244-3306 office </I>><i> 310-779-9938 cell </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> On Sep 5, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Thomas Lagö wrote: </I>><i> </I>><i> Dear All, </I>><i> </I>><i> I suggest the use of FRF instead of Transfer Function since it is a measured function, not a theoretical model. </I>><i> </I>><i> Further, the IR method (Impulse Response) is mathematically okay but has some "challenges" in practical applications. Chirp or a synchronised PRBS/MLS has key advantages. I would like to see a deeper discussion on this topic. Random noise (white or pink) has its advantages for non-linear systems and of the questions would be: is that needed for speakers or not? How non-linear are they (An LTI system response, that is)? </I>><i> </I>><i> I am open for a discussion on the topic. I have 30+ years experience from designing generators for multiple applications, linear and non-linear. </I>><i> </I>><i> Best regards, </I>><i> Thomas Lagö </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> On Sep 5, 2013, at 7:39 PM, Jacques FUCHS TMS <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>>> wrote: </I>><i> </I>><i> Dear All </I>><i> </I>><i> A first remark would be that a well defined pink noise is of course suitable for the final level calibration, but is rather far from enough for an ISO2969/SMPTE202 style transfer function (my suggestion : TF measured in amplitude AND group delay). For that kind of purpose, we should probably go toward the use of impulse response techniques, which will also show the incidence of the screens.... </I>><i> And speaking about loudness (and perceived high loudness), introducing distortion measurement would be necessary, as the mixer make movies more and more loud (especially the blockbusters). </I>><i> </I>><i> This means quite a deep evolution of the SMPTE/ISO standards in order to be again ahead from the technique and technology.... and no longer trying to run behind.... </I>><i> </I>><i> kind regards </I>><i> </I>><i> Le 5 sept. 2013 à 16:19, Mark Yonge <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>>> a écrit : </I>><i> </I>><i> Dear SC-04-08, </I>><i> </I>><i> Under our SMPTE liaison project AES-X216, I have posted a copy of a SMPTE working draft to this working group's site. It is in Adobe PDF format and has the filename: </I>><i> x216-SMPTE_Pink_Noise_WorkingDraft_20130904_ver_0 2.pdf </I>><i> </I>><i> A direct log-in is available at: </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91">https://secure.aes.org/standards/documents/?ID=91</A> </I>><i> </I>><i> PLEASE NOTE that this is a confidential document, like all documents posted to his site, and may not be copied outside this working group. </I>><i> </I>><i> It is inappropriate for members of this group to comment individually to SMPTE as a result of this posting. Please feel free to discuss the technical content on the SC-04-08 email reflector. The subject will be discussed at the SC-04-08 meeting in New York next month. I would expect a report containing the group's considered response to be generated by SC-04-08 and to be sent by this secretariat to SMPTE following the NY meetings. </I>><i> </I>><i> Thank you, </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> Mark Yonge </I>><i> AES Standards Manager </I>><i> </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">standards at aes.org</A>> </I>><i> tel: +44 1594 517200 </I>><i> skype: markyonge </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> Jacques FUCHS </I>><i> </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">jacques.fuchs at taylormadesystem.com</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> Mobile : +33 633 503 604 </I>><i> </I>><i> Systemic acoustics. Sound system design. </I>><i> Sound system calibration & optimization. </I>><i> </I>><i> www.taylormadesystem.com<<A HREF="http://www.taylormadesystem.com">http://www.taylormadesystem.com</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A><mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A>> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I>><i> </I>><i> </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standard... Expand This file was truncated for preview. Please download to view the full file. 000116.html 6 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>Thomas Lagö</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CBLU0-SMTP34807FEDBD3F6D3B2FBF56ACC3C0%40phx.gbl%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">thomaslago at msn.com </A><BR> <I>Thu Sep 5 23:47:18 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000115.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000117.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#116">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#116">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#116">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#116">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>Dear All, System Theory is an excellent foundation when handling the properties of a Pink Noise Generator. The Poles and Zero approach is good and easy for most people to handle and implement. LTI systems must be assumed if we should have a reasonable mathematical foundation. Defining spectral density and key statistical parameters for each octave band is probably a good method that also can be understood by most people. When it comes to the measurement process of random signals the book "Random Data" by Piersol and Bendat (good friends and we have been teaching courses together) is an excellent foundation. Random data assumes averaging and the averaging method will impact the result. Hence, I believe it is essential to define averaging method, averaging time and "filter bandwidth" for the measurement equipment. Apart from that, the dynamic range (handling of the crest factor) is very important for the result. I am happy to extend on this topic if needed. Best regards, Thomas Lagö On Sep 6, 2013, at 2:38 AM, David Josephson <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dlj at josephson.com</A>> wrote: ><i> I completely agree that a reference for pink noise (or any other mostly-random noise source) would be a valuable standard to have, and as far as I am aware does not exist, at least not as an electrical signal. ISO 6926 aka ANSI S12.5 specifies a mechanical noise source which has been successfully used for a long time; I am concerned that an attempt to standardize an electrical noise signal would gloss over the system variability between the electrical signal and the acoustic listener. </I>><i> </I>><i> So, my first comment to SMPTE would be to suggest tightening the scope of the proposed standard to caution against users thinking that having defined an electrical noise, they are any closer to defining an acoustic noise. Presumably, the goal of a B-chain calibration protocol is to achieve an acoustic signal at a listener location. </I>><i> </I>><i> The text suggests that it's a challenge to measure the level of a random signal. I don't think that's true -- what's a challenge is to decide what measurement is relevant to the task at hand. </I>><i> </I>><i> If we agree to not think about an elephant, and somehow the definition of an electrical pink noise is what's desired, there are lots of specific things to address in the proposal. I think the easiest way to specify the generation of a pink noise signal would be to show a block diagram describing the algorithm for a white noise generator and pinking filter. The description should use the poles and zeros method found e.g. in the sound level meter standards. Then the standard should describe a test algorithm to confirm that the desired amount of energy was present in each one-third octave band as desired. Some things are stated explicitly or implied, such as the goal that the signal be linear PCM at 96 ksps and 24 bits, and if this is the case then other parameters become less variable. </I>><i> </I>><i> David Josephson </I>><i> Chair, SC-04 </I>><i> _______________________________________________ </I>><i> SC-04-08 mailing list </I>><i> <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> </I>><i> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> </I>><i> </I> </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000115.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000117.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#116">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#116">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#116">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#116">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 000117.html 3 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.</H1> <B>John Woodgate</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20x216%20-%20SMPTE%20liaison%20document%20posted%20for%20comment.&In-Reply-To=%3CTSfZeXAgyYKSFwhj%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment.">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk </A><BR> <I>Fri Sep 6 02:04:48 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000116.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000118.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#117">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#117">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#117">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#117">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>In message <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">52292414.1020403 at josephson.com</A>>, dated Thu, 5 Sep 2013, David Josephson <<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">dlj at josephson.com</A>> writes: ><i>The description should use the poles and zeros method found e.g. in the </I>><i>sound level meter standards. </I> I'm not keen on that at all, because any practical instrument has several time-constants in the signal chain apart from those intended to define the frequency response. The result of specifying the poles and zeroes of the latter is that the other time-constants have to be DC or light. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all give the same information. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000116.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000118.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#117">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#117">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#117">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#117">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 000118.html 3 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] Uploads </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Uploads</H1> <B>John Woodgate</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Uploads&In-Reply-To=%3ClF%2BkLfGhmeLSFwPd%40jmwa.demon.co.uk%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Uploads">jmw at jmwa.demon.co.uk </A><BR> <I>Mon Sep 9 09:30:41 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000117.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000119.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#118">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#118">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#118">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#118">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>I have uploaded a Word conversion of the SMPTE Working Draft, with line numbers. I suggest you comment on this in the same way as I have commented in a further upload. Just delete all my text from the comment form and replace with your own. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all give the same information. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000117.html">[SC-04-08] x216 - SMPTE liaison document posted for comment. </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000119.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#118">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#118">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#118">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#118">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 000119.html 4 KB HTML - Click to view Options Copy Download Link <TITLE> [SC-04-08] Uploads </TITLE> pre { white-space: pre-wrap; /* css-2.1, curent FF, Opera, Safari */ } <H1>[SC-04-08] Uploads</H1> <B>Pete Soper</B> <A HREF="mailto:sc-04-08%40standards.aes.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BSC-04-08%5D%20Uploads&In-Reply-To=%3C2BE563BCBE473946A8E72AE261D4F64BE7934F75%40XCHG2.ms.msli.com%3E" TITLE="[SC-04-08] Uploads">psoper at meyersound.com </A><BR> <I>Wed Oct 2 12:22:41 MDT 2013</I> <P><UL> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000118.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000120.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#119">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#119">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#119">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#119">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <HR> <!--beginarticle--> <PRE>I have a meeting of the SMPTE group next Wednesday, do we have anything to provide in terms of feedback on the topics outlined in the "straw man draft" standard document for the group's consideration or discussion? Thanks and best regards -Pete Soper -----Original Message----- From: <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08-bounces at standards.aes.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">sc-04-08-bounces at standards.aes.org</A>] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 8:31 AM To: SC-04-08 Subject: [SC-04-08] Uploads I have uploaded a Word conversion of the SMPTE Working Draft, with line numbers. I suggest you comment on this in the same way as I have commented in a further upload. Just delete all my text from the comment form and replace with your own. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk If dictionaries were correct, we would only need one, because they would all give the same information. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK _______________________________________________ SC-04-08 mailing list <A HREF="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">SC-04-08 at standards.aes.org</A> <<A HREF="http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91">http://standards.aes.org/sc.cfm?ID=91</A>> NOTICE: This email may contain confidential information. Please see <A HREF="http://www.meyersound.com/confidential/">http://www.meyersound.com/confidential/</A> for our complete policy. </PRE> <!--endarticle--> <HR> <P><UL> <!--threads--> <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000118.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000120.html">[SC-04-08] Uploads </A></li> <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> <a href="date.html#119">[ date ]</a> <a href="thread.html#119">[ thread ]</a> <a href="subject.html#119">[ subject ]</a> <a href="author.html#119">[ author ]</a> </LI> </UL> <hr> <a href="https://secure.aes.org/mailman/listinfo/sc-04-08">More information about the SC-04-08 mailing list</a><br> Expand 0 Comments Public All Members My Connections Only Me PublicAll MembersMy ConnectionsOnly Me Public All Members My Connections Only Me
